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"To Spitfire" or not "To Spitfire"

M0rdechai

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Ok so I'm new to this.
I'm 30 years old, done a lot of amateur- semipro live gigs and am now looking into composing. just for fun and for myself in the style of Harry Gregson-Williams (if I ever can ofcourse :) ) and a bit more fantasy & gaming influences (+choirs!!!). the money I will earn with doing gigs etc. (100-200 Euro a month on avarage) will go into this.
Aside from that I want to use vsts for live playing as well as making backing tracks for the live gigs (gospel /countryrock)

The thing is: I have spent quite some time the last months gathering info on what to look for, what to buy etc.
currently I have cubase LE, omnisphere 2 and komplete ultimate 11, will buy Keyscape soon.

but now I have a big decision to make; where do I want to go with orchestral libraries.

It appears to me that there is 2 'routes' that I can take:

A. Cinematic Studio Strings, CineBrass, HollyWoodwinds, Genesis, Dominus + some Embertone solo instruments and Tina Guo cello
maybe lateron add LASS3 / Cinematic Studio Brass / who knows what will come out

or B: Spitfire Audio... (maybe + Genesis for now, but who knows when they will....)

(or C: Orchestral Tools... but to start building a library they are to expensive for me..)

with reading stuff here and listening to guys like DJ, Blakus, Guy Mickelmore, Ashton Gleckman I get the idea that the SA stuff and the 'others' dont blend so easily. That you either go all in on SA or cherry pick the 'best-of's from other companies
I like the sound of all libraries listen under A, but I also like the sound of SA...

so:

1. Am I weird to think that there is some truth in 'go Spitfire all the way or not at all'?

2. Do you think that (given that I won't have to go FFFF in my libraries) I COULD do either option and be fine, or would you advise A/B/C?

(3. Is there a thread I couldn't find that already perfectly discusses this?)


cheers,
 
It is probably best to go either Spitfire or go Orchestral tools depending on your taste to go for the highest level of sound with the minimum amount attempting to 'mix' the sounds to get them to mesh well. Note I'm no expert and have only a couple OT stuff, a few labs Spitfire things and tons of other stuff that I don't know how to mix well.
 
thx
hmm ok. stick with 1 company...

but then; is there maybe a thread "SA vs OT vs EW vs VSL vs CS"?
or is there a sort of major consensus on this that everyone just knows?
or is this the part where people say; you have to decide for yourself, goodluck! :)
 
Spitfire and Cinesamples work extremely well together. Spitfire has a certain sound and feeling to it which I adore and couldn't live without. Cinesamples produce fantastic sounding products with high playability and fantastic pricing, maybe a bit more on the "safe side" and the sound is more neutral, in line with modern cinematic productions while Spitfire is more idiosyncratic. I own large collections by both and love both.
Orchestral Tools make fantastic instruments for sure, the pricing is higher and the tech specs are more demanding, while CineSamples especially run on less powerful systems.
I own three OT libraries, Metropolis Ark I and II and the muted brass. I use the Metropolis libraries sparingly because my style is more restrained but I truly adore some of the sounds in them.
In summary then, you can't go wrong with any of them.

But.

I would like to make some point which often gets overlooked in our passion for new and better VIs:
(1) Restraint and restriction are sometimes very creativity-boosting. Unless you feel most comfortable writing for a full orchestra you can restrict yourself to something like CineSymphony or Albion or even some of the Symphobias or try something even less expectable, like only buying Albion II or actually something by a smaller developer, some of them have truly wonderful products I truly believe we should support more, among them for example Light and Sound
(2) Before investing into sounds, consider recording your own and using them, if you are an instumentalist or have access to instrumentalists that is even more interesting and -in my eyes- productive. My workflow has shifted over the past years from 100% commercial VIs to 90% homegrown and bespoke samples and live recordings and maybe 10% VIs whenever I actually do virtual. Mostly I work with real instruments and no matter what they want you to believe, you cannot beat live.
(3) Do you feel you should put some money into better training? Almost everything you need to learn music from a certain degree onwards you can probably teach yourself by listening to Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Chopin, Schubert, Bruckner, Mahler, Schönberg, Webern, the Russians (Rach, Prok, Glazunov, Mussorgsky, Myaskovsky, Tchaikovsky, Scriabin and Schnittke), the Brits (Walton, Vaughan Williams, Elgar), the Americans (Gershwin, Ive, Bernstein) and probably a bit of Nielsen, some Jazz, Blues and a bit of Rock/Pop/Metal and transcribing them/score studying. But you might want to invest into actual paper scores (very helpful), actually pay someone to listen to their music (i.e. live performances not just apple music), a teacher to teach you something (keyboard skills? a new instrument? note-reading? I consider the latter a must, not everyone agrees).

Full disclosure: I am a professional composer and composition/orchestration teacher at a university and NOT a media composer or a film composer. I have never scored a single movie in my life and never intend to and all my work is intended for live performers. Mockups are only a very small part of what I do.

Hope I could help.
 
It is probably best to go either Spitfire or go Orchestral tools depending on your taste to go for the highest level of sound with the minimum amount attempting to 'mix' the sounds to get them to mesh well. Note I'm no expert and have only a couple OT stuff, a few labs Spitfire things and tons of other stuff that I don't know how to mix well.

Ha! @ bigcat1969 is cool, capable dude in several categories :whistling: …. I'm far less astute, yet share his advice.
Either choice will get you on a solid track, but evaluate OT pricing carefully before letting that be your main reason for avoiding. ( BTW, it impacted my early choices too, but I am in the US, and Euro pricing stacks on ~20% every time )
After couple years, and many purchases, I have spent more than had I focused on either OT or SFA.
Now have large inventory of quality libraries ( including some from OT & SFA ) and it's a mish /mash with no rationale. Others with strong talent and skills, can fit these pieces together as needed, but I am far from that capability.

All the best with whatever your chosen direction ...… :thumbsup:
 
Having pretty much everything I need from setup A and B, I would strongly suggest the A- route. The budget will allow way more different stuff, different instruments and different timbres with the same price than B.

The Spitfire stuff is very good, but they have pretty much a certain sound and you're a bit "locked" into that if you're going to use them. Some of their stuff (Chamber Strings and Woodwinds come to mind) are more versatile than the others, but their Symphonic Orchestra- palette is more or less classical- oriented and will leave you a bit cold when wanting to do something "different", of which especially game music is more about.

That being said, the A- route is also having it's flaws, namely the mixing of different libraries together. Which is tough, especially for a "novice". Then again, if you're not into realism per se, you don't have to care about that difficulty and just go with the flow. :D
But I'd say you will get best bang for your buck for now if you choose that A one. Concerning option C, I can't comment on that one as I have no Berlin stuff myself.
 
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1. Am I weird to think that there is some truth in 'go Spitfire all the way or not at all'?

Not weird, but not necessary either. If you have the money you can buy a Spitfire package and make a lot o' nice music. That said, you will find that any library family has its habits, colour, predilections, etc. that at times will be limiting.

I blend everything and it sounds fine.
 
thanks for your input guys!

I am looking into training as well (I have studied 1 year of Jazz piano and 2 years of Music Teaching, so I'm not going in all blind). looking at some Udemy courses and Thinkspace Education.
With my firstborn underway (could be any day now) I can't put to much time into it though :D

I Have looked at Project SAM as well, but I always found their sound a bit... impolite :)
like a bit in your face instead of relaxing. and I'm not so sure on the 'sections' thing..
People seem to love it though...

Being a pianist, not much I can do about creating my own samples I gues. besides I'm not that creative :D I need to use people like the Unfinished to inspire me


Maybe then option A + Albion to start :)
Ow i dunno yet, but luckily I don't have to decide today.

thx again guys
 
If I were you, and time isn't urgent, I would consider subscribing to East West Composer Cloud for a bit to get me started off, and then wait and see what comes later this year around the Black Friday sales.

Spitfire had some very attractive deals around that time last year, and I saved a LOT of money on their normal pricing when I bought the whole orchestra.

(Also, by that time, you'll know if you want to continue with the crazy hobby.)
 
Going with B will give you a nice and cohesive sound. Also, there is a lot to be said for having all your instruments programmed with the same MIDI CCs as you'd get by going with the same company.

Were I just starting out I would go with a single company to begin with, and then add on as you need. Spitfire, Cinesamples, East West, Orchestral Tools, ProjectSAM, VSL (and others of course) all have comprehensive solutions.

Echoing JohnG I mix different libraries all the time! This is a very small concern in the larger view of composing and producing.
 
EW has the orchestral gold package at a very good price. better to have the diamond of course. but their price and quality is amazing. so for one side, its sticking to one company and its sound which is very good.
the only downside is PLAY, which seems to being doing good.

or also getting CSS, CB, HWW from different companies is still good.

your question is basically about 70% of this forums posts :)
so there will be tons of variations, yet any path will get you some cool results.

also, since you mentioned harry gregson Williams, I have to say that his style doesn't involve tons of articulations... like the amount that spitfire has. I was overwhelm by how many articulation their string libraries have. while HGW scores have much less (and still sounding amazing btw) articulations. I don't think Narnia as a HGW sound btw.
so food for thought on articulations needed vs price vs the offers.
 
If I were you, and time isn't urgent, I would consider subscribing to East West Composer Cloud for a bit to get me started off, and then wait and see what comes later this year around the Black Friday sales.
Exactly what I did for a year, I can't suggest that enough. The $25 Composer Cloud X plan gives you everything they make in 16-bit. I did the $49 plan and bought the hard drive and had everything in 24-bit but knowing what I know now, I would have started with the cheaper plan. You can try everything you want for a year for $25 a month. Some may argue "that's renting and you are throwing away $300 over a year for nothing". HA, really? How many libraries do we own we wish we hadn't gotten? Add THOSE up, lol! Plus, set everything up as a hobby business and you can deduct the monthly cost. But at the end, you'll know exactly what you like from EastWest. Mixing Symphonic Orchestra with Hollywood can sound great, plus you have a full 70-seat orchestra patch in SO that is great for noodling and composing because it sounds good. Anyway, after I knew what I wanted, I hung out for the Black Friday sales and got 50% off and two-for-ones and now I own exactly what I like (at this point). No other library offers this amazing program. Plus with EastWest, you don't need a stupid USB dongle, just an internet connection. Can you tell I'm not a fan of those? lol! Studio One, NI, EW, Waves = #NoDongleForThisDork ;)
For the one person out there that's 28% curious, I ended up buying HO, SO, SC, HC, Pianos, SD3, Spaces and two of the special edition that has SD1 Patterns and String Runs. I ate Ramen, it's paid for, done, lol. Now I can concentrate on composition, the most import cog in the machine.
 
Exactly what I did for a year, I can't suggest that enough. The $25 Composer Cloud X plan gives you everything they make in 16-bit. I did the $49 plan and bought the hard drive and had everything in 24-bit but knowing what I know now, I would have started with the cheaper plan. You can try everything you want for a year for $25 a month. Some may argue "that's renting and you are throwing away $300 over a year for nothing". HA, really? How many libraries do we own we wish we hadn't gotten? Add THOSE up, lol! Plus, set everything up as a hobby business and you can deduct the monthly cost. But at the end, you'll know exactly what you like from EastWest. Mixing Symphonic Orchestra with Hollywood can sound great, plus you have a full 70-seat orchestra patch in SO that is great for noodling and composing because it sounds good. Anyway, after I knew what I wanted, I hung out for the Black Friday sales and got 50% off and two-for-ones and now I own exactly what I like (at this point). No other library offers this amazing program. Plus with EastWest, you don't need a stupid USB dongle, just an internet connection. Can you tell I'm not a fan of those? lol! Studio One, NI, EW, Waves = #NoDongleForThisDork ;)
For the one person out there that's 28% curious, I ended up buying HO, SO, SC, HC, Pianos, SD3, Spaces and two of the special edition that has SD1 Patterns and String Runs. I ate Ramen, it's paid for, done, lol.

lol really good point. I wished they had that when LASS came out. I would have $1k still in my pocket instead of inside a backup drive somewhere in a closet. :-/
 
Depends on what kind of vision you have for your music. Do the EW Composer Cloud for a month to warm up (learning what you can there has a certain amount of crossover value when you use other libraries).

As mentioned above, if you mostly want to just have fun with a heaping mound of epic included, Met Ark 1 is a great deal. Heavy, heavy, heavy and less heavy (though I wouldn't recommend doing too much of that last with that library...right tools for the right job and all that rot WOT!).

I'm glad I started with the Hollywood series because I didn't know much about "out of the box" and "baked in reverb", I had to learn how to engineer my own stuff really quick. And that has paid off a zillion times since. Being able to put your mockups into a finished state with all your idiosyncracies in style present; having mapped out the panning, dynamics, reverb tails, etc. oneself...it can be extraordinarily gratifying.

I'd recommend the Bernard Herrmann Orchestral Toolbox to you (because it's a nice and dry library), but it might seem too niche for a beginner. Lots of super cool stuff you can do with that one, too.
 
I have had QLSO Gold for years and found it hard to get to sound I liked but still use the timpani and percussion over the spitfire equivalent but now use Spitfire for everything else orchestral.

I think it’s important to work out what you actually need as Komplete ultimate has usable orchestral sounds and you already have this.

With so much choice even within spitfire: Chamber strings, SOlo strings, HZ strings, Symphony orchestra etc. Knowing which is the right W tion to buy is hard. Other brands have similar range so what size orchestra does Harry Gregson-Williams write for?

I probably haven’t helped at all but I think this is where I would start again.....
 
One more vote for the EastWest ComposerCloud as a starting place.

This way, you can compose while waiting for sales on other companies' products. For what it's worth, I don't have problems mixing Spitfire and non-Spitfire products. I'd go with what sounds good to your ears.

Best,

Geoff
 
Not weird, but not necessary either. If you have the money you can buy a Spitfire package and make a lot o' nice music. That said, you will find that any library family has its habits, colour, predilections, etc. that at times will be limiting.

I blend everything and it sounds fine.
This!
For me, I always pick up a library when I like the sound of it. And yes, sometimes I use the old Peter Siedlaczek AO and Garritan libs because of its sound what is needed in my projects. It all depends! You have to experiment and for sure you will buy this and/or that library what you will use only sometimes ..... . Good luck!
 
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