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Wow - Chris Hein Ensemble Strings Looks Great

Great video, this looks like a must (and this will be the first vi I'll have bought since BHOT first came out).
 
I'm wondering if Chris will be selling this also through Sweetwater, as he did much of his other instruments.
 
I have the SWAM violin, cello, sax & trumpet from Sample Modelling/Audio Modelling. The playability of the Chris Heins instruments reminds me a lot of these. Does anyone have both and can say how well they blend? The SWAM instruments are very dry, as are the CH instruments, but CH has inbuilt reverb which looks really nice, but then how would I blend these with SWAM? Anyone have experience with this?
 
Garry said:
I have the SWAM violin, cello, sax & trumpet from Sample Modelling/Audio Modelling. The playability of the Chris Heins instruments reminds me a lot of these. Does anyone have both and can say how well they blend? The SWAM instruments are very dry, as are the CH instruments, but CH has inbuilt reverb which looks really nice, but then how would I blend these with SWAM? Anyone have experience with this?
Click to expand...
You can turn the reverbs off. Then you get nice dry samples. As dry as the Atacama.

Edit : I may have answered a bit quickly. It seems you know the CH samples are dry. I don't really understand the question, then.
 
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Shredoverdrive said:
You can turn the reverbs off. Then you get nice dry samples. As dry as the Atacama.
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Thanks, yes I realise that, but then I have no experience in terms of mixing dry libraries together and how well they bind with reverb added at the track or master level. Would be great to hear from anyone who has both libraries and whether they blend well and easily, or if you have to really have great mixing skills to bring them together.
 
Garry said:
Thanks, yes I realise that, but then I have no experience in terms of mixing dry libraries together and how well they bind with reverb added at the track or master level. Would be great to hear from anyone who has both libraries and whether they blend well and easily, or if you have to really have great mixing skills to bring them together.
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Ok, I get it now. I don't have SWAM instruments so others will give you better answers but as for mixing dry instruments, I use VSS2 and a glue reverb. It works more or less.
 
Shredoverdrive said:
Ok, I get it now. I don't have SWAM instruments so others will give you better answers but as for mixing dry instruments, I use VSS2 and a glue reverb. It works more or less.
Click to expand...

Just looking at VSS2 - looks great, and love that you can download a trial version, so I plan to check it out.

What do you use as a ‘glue reverb’. I have the trial versions of a couple of Valhalla products and (I know others will hate this, as I know how popular they are), wasn’t that impressed over what Chromaverb, now free in Logic, provides (sacrilege, I know!). Is there a particular facet of a ‘glue reverb’ that would make it better for this purpose than another reverb, such as Chromaverb?
 
I turn off the "room" setting right off the bat with Chris's vis, I have never found a use for that, or the reverb on board in general. I do keep the "body" engaged though. It doesn't sound quite right to me unless that's on.
 
Garry said:
Just looking at VSS2 - looks great, and love that you can download a trial version, so I plan to check it out.

What do you use as a ‘glue reverb’. I have the trial versions of a couple of Valhalla products and (I know others will hate this, as I know how popular they are), wasn’t that impressed over what Chromaverb, now free in Logic, provides (sacrilege, I know!). Is there a particular facet of a ‘glue reverb’ that would make it better for this purpose than another reverb, such as Chromaverb?
Click to expand...
I use eastwest's reverbs. I have a subscription to their composer cloud.
 
Shredoverdrive said:
I use eastwest's reverbs. I have a subscription to their composer cloud.
Click to expand...

I have what's been acclaimed as an "elite 'verb" (Altiverb) and STILL use Quantum Leap. It's a damn fine CR if you ask me. There's one in Cubase that's not terrible either...can't recall if its Roomworks or Reverance. Comes in handy, especially in a fix.

I'd go cuckoo for an AIR convo, but looks like that's extremely unlikely.
 
With SM Brass, I use EQ and VSS2 for positioning and EWQL Spaces for the hall. I am sure that this would sound great with that setup as well. I think it's a lot easier to blend dry libraries together than different wet libraries. I always have more problems blending wet libraries, even if they are recorded in the same hall. There is just something that doesn't sound right when all the instruments have the hall baked in. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

-Hannes
 
Hanu_H said:
With SM Brass, I use EQ and VSS2 for positioning and EWQL Spaces for the hall. I am sure that this would sound great with that setup as well. I think it's a lot easier to blend dry libraries together than different wet libraries. I always have more problems blending wet libraries, even if they are recorded in the same hall. There is just something that doesn't sound right when all the instruments have the hall baked in. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

-Hannes
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How do you use EQ with SM brass? I love those instruments, but I don't know how to eq them...sorry for the off topic ;)
 
Garry said:
I have the SWAM violin, cello, sax & trumpet from Sample Modelling/Audio Modelling. The playability of the Chris Heins instruments reminds me a lot of these. Does anyone have both and can say how well they blend? The SWAM instruments are very dry, as are the CH instruments, but CH has inbuilt reverb which looks really nice, but then how would I blend these with SWAM? Anyone have experience with this?
Click to expand...
SWAM strings, being modeled instruments, have a different kind of dryness. The first thing you want to do (in my opinion) is place them in a smaller space (using delay, perhaps), then buss them to a larger room reverb. I'd probably do the same with the CH strings, although I'd explore the room sounds there, first, before trying to create my own. The key will be to get them to sit the same basic distance, which can only be done with time and experimentation.
 
Hanu_H said:
There is just something that doesn't sound right when all the instruments have the hall baked in.
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I've said this before and firmly believe that the baked-in hall sound was originally done a) out of convenience—meaning, easier to record with the hall than to isolate them; and b) as a selling point, because the ensembles sound gorgeous the moment you press a key. Unlike dry samples they take less work to sound good right out of the box, thus negating the need to learn about reverb, EQ, etc. Until, of course, you start mixing sample libraries and suddenly it all sounds like mud. This is why I asked up front if the samples are dry. I think any engineer will tell you it's ultimately much easier to deal with dry samples than with wet ones. But we live in an age of instant gratification, which is why even the dry libraries have lots of reverb by default. Fortunately, it can be turned off.
 
robgb said:
I've said this before and firmly believe that the baked-in hall sound was originally done a) out of convenience—meaning, easier to record with the hall than to isolate them; and b) as a selling point, because the ensembles sound gorgeous the moment you press a key. Unlike dry samples they take less work to sound good right out of the box, thus negating the need to learn about reverb, EQ, etc. Until, of course, you start mixing sample libraries and suddenly it all sounds like mud. This is why I asked up front if the samples are dry. I think any engineer will tell you it's ultimately much easier to deal with dry samples than with wet ones. But we live in an age of instant gratification, which is why even the dry libraries have lots of reverb by default. Fortunately, it can be turned off.
Click to expand...

It can certainly be a crutch...to me, when it comes to brass and strings in particular the baked in libraries are (when it comes to getting paid for a great mock up or whatever) second choices. Good for an idea, good for the early sketch. But if I'm doing something for pay (and keep in mind I'm only good enough to pay a couple of bills a month with my music) I eschew all of those baked in libraries. As Robg mentioned, you get mud. I learned the hard way that mixing, say, Albion III with Hollywood Strings just leaves you with one set of strings sounding both further away and softer than the dry ensemble. You could conceivably make that work in your mix; I personally just nip it in the bud and substitute something dry.
 
Nicola74 said:
How do you use EQ with SM brass? I love those instruments, but I don't know how to eq them...sorry for the off topic ;)
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The same way you would on a instrument recorded in a studio. Cut out the frequencies you don't need. Use hi pass filter and sometimes cutting some high frequencies also helps to push the instruments back a bit. One important thing about dry instruments is that you should always use one 100% wet room reverb as an insert. If you want the instrument to sound orchestral, there can be no dry signal.

So if you are only using stock plugins, I would first make a group for SM Brass and insert EQ for all your instruments(make use of Kontakt's outputs. Then insert two reverbs in the group. First reverb is the room that should be small and 100% wet. Second one is the tail. A nice hall with about 60 to 70 ms pre-delay should do it. The hall should never be 100% wet, adjust it to taste.

-Hannes
 
Hanu_H said:
The same way you would on a instrument recorded in a studio. Cut out the frequencies you don't need. Use hi pass filter and sometimes cutting some high frequencies also helps to push the instruments back a bit. One important thing about dry instruments is that you should always use one 100% wet room reverb as an insert. If you want the instrument to sound orchestral, there can be no dry signal.

So if you are only using stock plugins, I would first make a group for SM Brass and insert EQ for all your instruments(make use of Kontakt's outputs. Then insert two reverbs in the group. First reverb is the room that should be small and 100% wet. Second one is the tail. A nice hall with about 60 to 70 ms pre-delay should do it. The hall should never be 100% wet, adjust it to taste.

-Hannes
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot, I will try!
 
Using the library now, I'd say its a solid 6/10.
Shorts have to be programmed tediously and manually to sound decent(They are DEFINITELY NOT playable), and the legato isn't as automatic as most other libraries.
With said legato, you may find getting certain transitions difficult if not impossible to sound as smooth as legato central libraries without putting in some time.
On the other hand, you get what is probably the best "studio string" sound I have ever heard from a vst.
Effects are high quality and useful.
There also seems to be divisi friendly features that help chords avoid dreaded frequency stacks heard in other libraries, I believe it's the ensemble section which allows you to half/double players based on what you're orchestrating.

Basically, this library is LASS but with:
+More attention to attacks and release of vibrato based on velocity. Extremely useful for out of box playing.
+Raw "studio" sound that is not overly harsh.
-Less functional Legato out of box.
-Nigh unplayable shorts that will have to be programmed and sequenced to sound real.
 
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Do the individual instruments in each section(violins, cellos, basses) have any delay between their start and end times? If not, things sound way too perfectly in sync without any smearing between instruments.
I'm looking forward to the reviews for this one.
 
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