VSL Synchron Strings I Announced (Nov. Release)

[Tfis]

2 more demos:

Unchained

Melody in F min

I was overwhelmed how three-dimensional "Unchained" sounds (listened on neumann kh120/kh805 in a treated room).

Two questions please:

Which mic positions did you use?
Could you do a 2nd version with the std. lib?
How large ist the full lib.? (ok that was the 3rd question )

You definitely should do some walkthroughs or tutorials for VSL.

 

[Ashermusic]

It looks like a souped-up version of the current player./QUOTE]


Of course it is. Each time any of the engines come out, Kontakt, Play, etc. they are based on the previous ones.

 

[FabioA]

Actually they said that it is a brand new engine builded from ground up.
Of course the GUI could have similarities with VI Pro 2; that would help the "migration" to the new sampler.

 

[Guy Bacos]

The clarity in the samples is very evident in "Unchained" (especially in the latter part, after the sul tastos which are good but easily rivaled by other libraries). The cellos+basses staccatos also seem pretty good, but the violins made me chuckle. Unfortunately the lack of life/vibrato in the sustains (and staccatos actually) is still very evident. And some of the x-fades between dynamics and releases sound very unnatural and abrupt, but that could be up to programming of course.

The clarity and definition is definitely amazing but still feels like a wasted opportunity.

Simon, would you mind pointing out a few places? One mistake I might of done in these 2 demos is way overused the Slot X for vibrato control, and should of alternated with the natural legato patch. I'm only talking about the sustained notes sections.

 

[Guy Bacos]

You can certainly have much more vibrato sound with 14 violins, just listen to a ton of film scores, or Hollywood Strings which I believe use even bigger sections. The custom library we did a while back also had tons more, which we explicitely asked the musicians for. I believe it was 12 violins. Those last two won't make the world of difference. I didn't hear "molto espressivo" in any of the sections, nor the cellos, in the pieces you did so I assume it isn't there.

Chamber size sections could definitely have more vibrato, but unfortunately this won't really help when you don't need those smaller sizes, and I still fear the same approach to recording samples will apply. Apassionata did have much more vibrato though, if I recall, so maybe there is still hope.

I agree that a strong vibrato here and there can be effective, but I've so far only heard this with real orchestras, when I hear these libraries with molto vibratos, and sounds great for a few notes but after that all the vibratos are so predictable to become annoying that I find this to be a bigger problem in my opinion since expressive vibratos are different and have their own character on every single note. I think in virtual music it's very difficult to solve one problem without creating another, so the best thing is to look at the qualities of a library and adapt, if you are looking to have it all, hire a real orchestra.

And although I'm still learning to get the best from synchron strings, and making mistakes, I'm convinced that it won't stop me from creating some pretty amazing sounding works in 2018, and of course combined with WW and brass and synchron percussion, will sound pretty damn full!

Just in general:

If this thread is so popular, it's probably because people want more and better from what they are currently using and expect synchron to solve all their problems and some expected to make mockups of JW on a 1st try. No virtual library will do that. Sorry. If you're dwelling so much on the imperfections you lose focus on the positive and there is a lot here. Some people on this thread have said about 50 times the same comment like a broken record while only 3 times about the positive.

 

[novaburst]

2 more demos:

Unchained

Melody in F min

@Guy Bacos Great demos very atmospheric and dark mood on your Unchained I did feel the intense mood that radiated in this pieces.

Melody in F min another wonder short I did wish it could go on for longer but still great work and thanks for posting.



with comments like these it is easy to tell the poster is trying very hard to take away the listeners attention from the beauty and creativity of these pieces, it is very clear the poster is on a never ending rampage of smear that clearly is not working, but now it is becoming quite sad to see.

Then from 1:32, here we have the usual weak legato.

I know @Guy Bacos you don't need encouraging but your work has made the library shine and shows your time and dedication you have for music and is very easy to see that...... cant wait for more musical post and advise from you.

 

[doubleattack]

I agree that a strong vibrato here and there can be effective, but I've so far only heard this with real orchestras, when I hear these libraries with molto vibratos, and sounds great for a few notes but after that all the vibratos are so predictable to become annoying that I find this to be a bigger problem in my opinion since expressive vibratos are different and have their own character on every single note. I think in virtual music it's very difficult to solve one problem without creating another, so the best thing is to look at the qualities of a library and adapt, if you are looking to have it all, hire a real orchestra. ...

+1

 

[Casiquire]

Hi Casiquire,

Are you saying you would like to hear more of the room, or ambient-tail of the notes when a note ends ? Just wanted to double check if I understood your statement above.

Isn't this what the various mic options should offer ? more ambiance, which will be audible between the notes ?

Thanks,
Muziksculp

Just the tails, I love the room sound, and someone before me said it best, it sounds very three dimensional.

 

[Critz]

I agree that a strong vibrato here and there can be effective, but I've so far only heard this with real orchestras, when I hear these libraries with molto vibratos, and sounds great for a few notes but after that all the vibratos are so predictable to become annoying that I find this to be a bigger problem in my opinion since expressive vibratos are different and have their own character on every single note. I think in virtual music it's very difficult to solve one problem without creating another, so the best thing is to look at the qualities of a library and adapt, if you are looking to have it all, hire a real orchestra.

And although I'm still learning to get the best from synchron strings, and making mistakes, I'm convinced that it won't stop me from creating some pretty amazing sounding works in 2018, and of course combined with WW and brass and synchron percussion, will sound pretty damn full!

Just in general:

If this thread is so popular, it's probably because people want more and better from what they are currently using and expect synchron to solve all their problems and some expected to make mockups of JW on a 1st try. No virtual library will do that. Sorry. If you're dwelling so much on the imperfections you lose focus on the positive and there is a lot here. Some people on this thread have said about 50 times the same comment like a broken record while only 3 times about the positive.

I'm sorry if I insist on the huge size of Synchron Strings. But while I agree to make an orchestral library means to do compromises and choices, I really think that with that amount of data VSL could offer more!
Spitfire could achieve a huge vibrato but also a more gentle vibrato, with really nice results (it's a fact everybody likes Spitfire sound signature). And the library is 100 gbs. I'm sure they decided to stay around that size and they had to chose what to include and what to skip. I'm sure that with 400 gbs they would have offered even more solution for vibrato and legato.
VSL really didn't care about the size. So I can't justify the lackness of a strong vibrato, that probably works better than what we have now most of the time. It's absolutely a must, both for film scoring that for "classical".

 

[Jimmy Hellfire]

I don't really need even more vibrato than the strong one in SyS. The CSS one for example can sound comical at times.

 

[Guy Bacos]

Spitfire could achieve a huge vibrato but also a more gentle vibrato, with really nice results (it's a fact everybody likes Spitfire sound signature).

Then keep using it since it fills all your needs.

 

[Critz]

Then use that if it fills your need.

For sure that's most likely the last VSL library I buy.
I would probably invest in them instead of VSL.
You are right, I was hoping for something better from VSL because I prefer the workflow. But at the end of the day, the sound and realism is the main thing. And clearly at the moment we have to look elsewere.

 

[Guy Bacos]

For sure that's most likely the last VSL library I buy.
I would probably invest in them instead of VSL.
You are right, I was hoping for something better from VSL because I prefer the workflow. But at the end of the day, the sound and realism is the main thing. And clearly at the moment we have to look elsewere.

So now that this is cleared up I imagine you'll move on.

 

[Critz]

So now that this is cleared up I imagine you'll move on.

Sure, if it pleases you so much, I will move on with pleasure.
May I also suggest you that if you want to receive just compliments for your demos (and just to be clear I blamed VSL for the poor tool, not the composition or programming skills), there's the VSL forum that will be just perfect. I'm sure William will be excited!

 

[Guy Bacos]

Sure, if it pleases you so much, I will move on with pleasure.
May I also suggest you that if you want to receive just compliments for your demos (and just to be clear I blamed VSL for the poor tool, not the composition or programming skills), there's the VSL forum that will be just perfect. I'm sure William will be excited!

And just be clear, my only complain has nothing to do with the comments made, but it would be nice to have some balance between what ones doesn't like and ones like. I'm sure that is understandable.

But anyway, this is going in circles.

 

[Guy Bacos]

May I also suggest you that if you want to receive just compliments for your demos (and just to be clear I blamed VSL for the poor tool, not the composition or programming skills), there's the VSL forum that will be just perfect. I'm sure William will be excited!

Pretty cheap shot there.

 

[prodigalson]

And so goes the 2018 method of communicating online: cheap shots and sarcastic quips designed solely to make ones self feel superior and "one up" the other with little to nothing to back it up.

Kudos to Guy for subjecting himself to this by continued submission of well written and well programmed demos. He's the only one doing so.

I'm personally on the fence still about whether to get a refund for synchron strings but these latest demoes are pushing me to stick it out until the new player and everything else is released.

 

[SGordB]

This is interesting (news to me, at least): . It's Herb Tucmandl on the motivation for the Synchron library, i.e., 1st tier Hollywood composers like Desplat and Elfman told VSL they were routinely using VSL libs to spice up their final orchestral recordings, fill in holes at the last minute and the like, so Tucmandl (himself a film composer and former orchestral cellist) thought, why not create a new lib that will already sound like a scoring stage when composers mix it with live recordings. He seems to be implying future scores may be recorded at Synchron, allowing composers' live/sampled hybrids to be a perfect Synchron/Synchron match.

 

[Simon Ravn]

Simon, would you mind pointing out a few places? One mistake I might of done in these 2 demos is way overused the Slot X for vibrato control, and should of alternated with the natural legato patch. I'm only talking about the sustained notes sections.

Unchained:
0:17-0:19 something funny going on in the violins x-fade, they suddenly drop to another dynamic abruptly after going down a whole tone.
0:51/0:52, the release is rather abrupt.
01:01-01:11 same thing with the release.
02:46 is a bit weird, because you go in playing a rather hard hitting f in the violins, then it sort of fades into mp over the next 2-3 notes, but this is more a phrasing "issue"/feeling. I would think it would have been much more sensible and musical to fade in the first note from mp at least to create a more dynamic phrasing. Also considering the rest of the orchestra is playing p.
02:57 cellos/violas abruptly come to a stop.
03:17 violins legato, not sure what's going on there, maybe you're not using a legato patch and have a lot of overlap on the two notes.
03:28 cellos/violas/basses come to an abrupt stop and you fade out the violins 1-2 seconds later. Doesn't sound like this was intentional.
04:22 onwards, here the problem with the violins staccatos being "too perfect" really shows, and it gets very unnatural and machine-gun-y, metallic/sharp sounding.

Otherwise a nicely written piece that shows off many articulations.

 

[Guy Bacos]

Unchained:
0:17-0:19 something funny going on in the violins x-fade, they suddenly drop to another dynamic abruptly after going down a whole tone.
0:51/0:52, the release is rather abrupt.
01:01-01:11 same thing with the release.
02:46 is a bit weird, because you go in playing a rather hard hitting f in the violins, then it sort of fades into mp over the next 2-3 notes, but this is more a phrasing "issue"/feeling. I would think it would have been much more sensible and musical to fade in the first note from mp at least to create a more dynamic phrasing. Also considering the rest of the orchestra is playing p.
02:57 cellos/violas abruptly come to a stop.
03:17 violins legato, not sure what's going on there, maybe you're not using a legato patch and have a lot of overlap on the two notes.
03:28 cellos/violas/basses come to an abrupt stop and you fade out the violins 1-2 seconds later. Doesn't sound like this was intentional.
04:22 onwards, here the problem with the violins staccatos being "too perfect" really shows, and it gets very unnatural and machine-gun-y, metallic/sharp sounding.

Otherwise a nicely written piece that shows off many articulations.

Thanks a lot Simon, much appreciate that!

I've quickly looked at these, I must admit they were much smaller issues than I expected, I could of probably tweaked it a little more for sure, and will do what I can to fix these, however in general this looks more related to the programming than the library itself.