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A large "Sinatra" sound from CSS. Is it obtainable?

Thorgod10

Thorgod10

String Library Junkie
Been working on a project where strings need to sound full, yet very intimate.
The track itself (especially where strings come in) do require a bit of intense vibrato, and I've found that CSS fills that gap the best for a spacey, yet intimate sound.
My current problem is that I need to make each section sound quite a bit "fuller" to match the context of the piece, and I'm having quite a hard time achieving this without using other libraries.
If anyone would happen to know how to make such a library sound more "close" and "full," it would be much appreciated! :)

Video Link for reference(at 2:56):
Click to read more...
 
It's not gonna be easy with CSS alone as it's about half the size you'd want for matching the recording. I would use CSS close mics to create the detailed legato and the old school vibrato, and then in the background I'd layer SSS or LASS (or HWS with the vintage mics perhaps?) to create the impression of larger sections.
 
It's mainly the sound of close three part voicing with octave doubling and espressivo vibrato. You need four violin tracks to get the divisi chords. I think CSS is the best choice along with Berlin Strings 'strong vibrato legato' or Soaring Strings (while Soaring Strings doing divisi might be a bad idea as they doesn't even have a second violin). I would just try to open another first and second violin track in CSS. In the Sinatra track they hard panned the first and second violins apart.
 
What I hear: that sound is the string section miked in a studio (rather than from a distance in a concert hall), but the bigness comes from reverb - most likely the live chamber at Capitol Records, but who knows.

Trying to get that sound with samples is going to be a miserable experience, now that you're comparing the two.

Beautiful writing. I had to look up the arranger, and Gordon Jenkins won the Grammy for it in 1966. So did Sinatra.

By the way, the recording is intimate, but I don't think it's a small section the whole way through. Small violin sections sound like dog's breakfast when they're playing high, and they can't get that powerful and smooth. Plus the unmeasured tremolo chords at the beginning sound like lots of players (although it could be mixed with regular bows).
 
Not sure if you'll be able to get it with that library. There are a lot of things that go into that sound. Lots of vibrato in specific places, and portamento. Plus, vintage reverb and some compression. Also, either a full con sordino section, or half and half. I've had some luck getting that sound with VSL, using a combination of solo, chamber and orchestra. Having a solo sample on the top helps. The arrangement and voicings are very important. Here's one example (a little more hi-fi than the Sinatra example, though).

https://www.reverbnation.com/leeblaske/song/19151365-lush
 
Also, record each part as a monophonic, legato line. Don't try to play the entire ensemble all at one time. If I were trying to do this today, I think I would gravitate toward Dimension Strings, using some of the vintage mic options in MIR.
 
Thorgod10 said:
My current problem is that I need to make each section sound quite a bit "fuller" to match the context of the piece, and I'm having quite a hard time achieving this without using other libraries.
Click to expand...
So why not use other libraries?
 
Saxer said:
I always wanted to try this string part...
Click to expand...

What vst's did you use for this?
Also, if you used spitfire, it unfortunately lacks the marcato required for that aggressive romance sound.
 
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anthraxsnax said:
I think LASS is best bet.



I wasn't playing as high there, but that's the legato sordino patches - and I feel like it wouldn't take many steps further to get closer to the sound in that video

and it does come with first chair(which I'm not using at all here, just A B C sections)
Click to expand...

I don't know, unless It has been updated, the one thing that has set me off of LASS is the lack of vibrato intensity.
If there's a trick to intensify vibrato, I would of course buy it in a heart beat.
 
Part of the sound is made by the recording techniques and equipment of that era, which had it's consequences regarding playing style and instrumentation.
 
Thorgod10 said:
What vst's did you use for this?
Also, if you used spitfire, it unfortunately lacks the marcato required for that aggressive romance sound.
Click to expand...
I used VSL Dimension Strings. I tried CSS first but I couldn't get it to play in time.

Thorgod10 said:
I don't know, unless It has been updated, the one thing that has set me off of LASS is the lack of vibrato intensity.
If there's a trick to intensify vibrato, I would of course buy it in a heart beat.
Click to expand...
It doesn't really add vibrato but detuning the three LASS sections about +/-5cent can make it sound more like a big vibrato section.
 
From the get go I thought: that is a job for Saxer! DS comes fairly close soundwise in my opinion. By the way @Saxer, your stacking of SCS with sample modelling is close as well if I remember correctly.
 
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