Your Pedal Steel was on my 'must buy' list. Was waiting for the cross platform stuff to get worked out for the Mac.

What will this mean for users of previous versions which require authorization from tascam? I have licenses for GS3 and there are occasions when I need to re-authorize because I've had to re-install XP. Will I still be able to authorize my installs after the end of the year?

Dont' quit waiting! All I need is to hone my scripting chops.
-M

Thanks Peter, I will do that. But first I'm going to educate myself somewhat on how it works, so that I can communicatte effectively with whoever it is I end up getting help from.

Thanks Peter, I will do that. But first I'm going to educate myself somewhat on how it works, so that I can communicatte effectively with whoever it is I end up getting help from.

Thanks for your kind words about the product. Such shame to have this happen right at the end of a year's hard work. Same for Tascam's coders, since they made my instrument programming possible in the new GS4 code. It couldn't have been done in GS3.

Mark

p.s. Please join us in the fight to get Tascam to release the Giga code as open source. Only in this way can the Technology that started this industry continue to grow. Give it to a community with creative vision and no foolish corporate misguidedness and it may just become the open player that most users wish for, but if not it could well remain dead on the Tascam vine:

http://www.opengigastudio.com/

Best,
Mark

What will this mean for users of previous versions which require authorization from tascam? I have licenses for GS3 and there are occasions when I need to re-authorize because I've had to re-install XP. Will I still be able to authorize my installs after the end of the year?

I'm definitely in the Open Giga camp.

Start looking for cracks. When it happens, it will show how ridiculously stupid copy protection is when you have to crack your own software because theres no way else to use it.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

On the GS4 side, it's really too bad that there weren't more GSIF 2.1 cards available at a reasonable price. I upgraded to GS4 immediately, but I still haven't run it in 64-bits.

So rather than a large group of people thrilled about the samples they could load, the GS4 launch kinda fell flat, IMHO.

Giga will still be useful going forward, but this is a sad day indeed.

I've got a mint condition GS3 here still shrinkwrapped in its wooden, er, coffin.

This is scary actually. NI is in trouble too. They've taken a bath on Kore. Spent all sorts of money in dev. and research and it hasn't paid off.

There's talk from some pretty legit sources that they may sell their licenses too.

Sorry for being sarcastic, but...... Hahaha Hahaha Hahaha! You've been Tascammed AGAIN!!

I can't believe it! They did the same thing with their customers 2 times already. Unbelievable!

And yet they somehow managed to acquire enough people who wasted their money on them.... only to be Tascammed again. Wow. Where I come from, this is called "Chuzpe"...

My condolences to everyone who bought their products! What are the alternatives?

Please...while there are long term implications of this and also many good people on the Gigastudio development team whose immediate job futures may be in question ...it is not like my Gigastudio machine magically stopped working today either. It is very solid as a matter of fact and probably will be for many years to come.

And when one can walk onto major dub stages (some Todd-AO dub stages I can think of) in Hollywood and see that they are still running OS9 with older versions of Pro Tools on some stages...running older software does not necessarily mean the investment in that software, in this case, the software that changed the sampler software industry forever (Gigastudio) was a waste.

quod sui juris est.

quisquam?

Sorry, I went to school in America and Google doesn't have a Latin option.

Y
But I must be in a very small minority, because people are asking for sample players.

will you be able to put your own samples, or say GS samples into Play?

yes you can load your own and kontakt programs

I estimate the tweakers are less than 3%. But there is probably another 10% who likes to create their own sounds once in a while. The ideal is an interface that gives you easy access to 99% of what you want to do. That's the goal anyway. PLAY PRO will be a full blown sampler. It's what we use to program PLAY instruments right now. It kind of looks like Giga, but that will probably change when it is unleashed on the public.

So does this mean you cannot upgrade to or buy GS4 anymore?

That's really a shame for the developers and for everyone who has supported the GIGA format....that's always a real drag when that happens. I've been through this a bunch of times before, so I know the feeling.

From my perspective, I'm really glad that we decided not to support the GIGA platform with our libraries.

After we got burned by Roland, Akai, Kurzweil, SampleCell, Emu, Ensoniq, Bitheadz, etc....I got a little tired of the whole sampler merry-go-round. I've got a warehouse full of obsolete discs to prove it!

We supported open samplers for over a decade before we realized that there's a much better way to realize our ideas and bring them to the market in a way that can last and is more innovative.

So to offer another perspective: Open samplers almost killed this developer, not the other way around.

Good luck on the Open GIGA initiative....hope that can happen for all the loyal GIGA users out there who certainly deserve it!

best,

spectrum

What a sad post to read. I'm sorry Eric.

Frank,

I am "frankly" a bit puzzled by your post. I really don't see NI suffering from this, but rather benefitting.

There are some key factors that in my opinion have made Kontakt now most common full featured soft sampler out there.

First of all, they never shunned the Mac community. While PC developers can argue that Mac users only command 8% or so of computer users, in the audio (and visual) world this is not the case. I personally do not know a single working composer who uses a PC as his main platform (hold your horses all of you itching to chime in....I don't know any of you personally, I'm speaking of my colleagues whom I've had the pleasure to meet face to face). So for Nemesys and Tascam to refuse to port their software to the Mac for such a long time, unavoidably hurt their bottom line (the same BTW does not apply as much the other way around, companies such as MOTU and Apple know very well that in the audio and video world, Macs are predominant).

Secondly, GS never until very recently adopted the idea of a plug-in based workflow. They allowed their competitors to buzz right past them in this regard, while NI has always been plug-in based.

NI has had a very aggressive marketing strategy, their initial "alliance" with sample developers was absolutely brilliant. I'm sure they knew that this would not last forever, but they took it and run with it as long as they could.

NI is also supported by a multi-product line. So even if their Kontakt sales might lessen with time, they have a slew of other software to help keep them going (you could argue that Tascam did have hardware sales to keep it going...but IMHO this was part of the whole problem).

NI has had a very aggressive Format-Import stance which to my knowledge is only matched in breadth by MOTU's Mach 5 (or 6 or whatever it is now). This has made is relatively simple for guys like me to convert and use GS libraries.

In closing, I think NI is probably celebrating this latest development as I'm sure ex-GS users will now take a serious look at Kontakt 3.

You mention 'Mac'.... weren't they the computer equivalent of Gigastudio. Overpriced kit catering for a tiny minority? Are they still going?

You mention 'Mac'.... weren't they the computer equivalent of Gigastudio. Overpriced kit catering for a tiny minority?

Would seem a damn shame if the DEF and PRF capabilities were forever lost to a sealed corporate dustbin.

Something I'm wondering about DEF.. Since Sonivox co-developed it I believe, I wonder if it might be in Sonivox's new sample player?

On the PRF side of this, supposedly the new SIPS version just released does something similar to the PRF.

.

This said, I'm not saying that what I posted above would replace DEF. I'm just suggesting what I think would be easier to do with the best results.

What exactly though does the DEF filter do? If it's possible to explain in a paragraph or so?

Sorry for my ignorance.... I believe there is a thread somewhere about the DEF filter in the K2 forum, but I don;t recall it really explaining with the DEF actually does.

Native Instruments are already in bed with Vienna Instruments, to a degree, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a further linkage with the latter taking over the Kontakt engine. I can’t see Kontakt surviving now unless they end up, even more, like EWQL; ie. having their own sampler AND samples. I can foresee a lot of amalgamations and take-overs in the near future.

I think he's referring to VSL instruments being packaged as park of the Kontakt Library. It's really not a huge deal considering that it allows VSL to generate money through Kontakt's wider distribution.

There are some really great things that I think VSL player nailed, and that I hope other developers consider adopting, such as how simple it really is to turn a multi-velocity instrument into a Velocity Xfade instrument and assign any controller you want to it.

Nils wrote an awesome script that does exactly that.

http://nilsliberg.se/ksp/scripts/scripts.html#crossfade

Not sure what all the doom and gloom about Kontakt is about??

I've been in this business of samplers and libraries since the beginning in the early 80's, and I've never seen a healthier and better supported sampler than Kontakt.

It has nowhere near the same business problems that GIGA faced.

My prediction is that Kontakt will be around for a long, long time.

spectrum

Frank, some odd and some pertinent points there, some of which I agree with, others of which I don't. However, the above quote caught me out - since when have VSL been in bed with NI? VSL ditched development for Kontakt / Giga / EXS three years ago just prior to releasing their own VI Player which was coded in house.

Not sure what you're alluding to in terms of them having any interest whatsoever in the Kontakt engine or anything else to do with NI. After all, VSL have their own PC/Mac Plugins, hosts, and 64-bit support long before anyone else.... why would they wish to take a retrograde step? That's like suggesting EWQL abandon Play and suddenly decide to move all their work to Giga?!

"You mention 'Mac'.... Are they still going?"

I'm sure Steve Jobs is laughing all the way to the hospital!

I think he's referring to VSL instruments being packaged as park of the Kontakt Library. It's really not a huge deal considering that it allows VSL to generate money through Kontakt's wider distribution.

There are some really great things that I think VSL player nailed, and that I hope other developers consider adopting, such as how simple it really is to turn a multi-velocity instrument into a Velocity Xfade instrument and assign any controller you want to it. Next to VSL, EXS24 is the next easiest sampler to configure....unfortunately it's outdated in functionality.

I am sure that some of the GS3 tech will trickle down to other samplers, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the guys who just got laid off at Tascam are busy making plans for relocation to Germany.

Yes Red, I'm afraid that I am somewhat odd, as are my points....some of them impertinent....it has to be said.....especially my naughty Mac titillation.....Sorry MidiPhase.

I was shooting from the hip wrt to Kontakt going further with VSL's samples. Yes you are right VSL are independent and pretty much at the (too expensive for me) forefront of technology....but there again, who knows what might happen. My point really is that NI might have to start kompeting more with the likes of PlayPro and if their sampler is only equal to it then they'll probably have to start matching the sample side of the business too. I wonder if EWQL will bundle Colossus or Goliath with it: or at least a subset?

Hi Spectrum,

The gloom is based on the fact that every new sampler that comes on the market takes away Kontakts share....simple as that.

OK they'll benefit somewhat by the demise of GS,

but unless they compete on the sample side then I think that there could be problems.

However, let's be honest, no one, other than NI, really knows how the market is changing for Kontakt.

I really do hope that you are right as it would be terrible if there wasn't at least one strong independent software sampler manufacturer.

I do think that they're going to have some serious competition on their hands once the likes of Player Pro get onto the market with the marketing skills of EWQL in particular.

the clincher with Kontakt was the existence of the Kompakt player - a genius marketing device whereby they got their own engine into countless products.

This is precisely what GVI was poised and ready to do for the Giga platform.

For both Mac and PC users.

The few GVI-wrapped instruments that made it out are killer . . . and will, hopefully, thrive in some new incarnation.

The beauty of the GVI-wrapped concept, and the nearness of the platform's exposure to the Mac market makes TASCAM's decision particularly incomprehensible.

.

Hi all,

I just received the latest issue of Computer Music.(CM129). Coincidentally, wrt to the subject of this thread, it has a review of GigaStudio 4. This obviously went to press before Tascam’s announcement. (BTW, as if to confirm my earlier post which pointed out that this technology is widely available, CM now give away their own Sampler with the attached DVD (as well as a host of other, apparently, very decent synths etc). What is happening is that with the increasingly educated world and rapidly increasing surfeit of gifted programmers they have no outlets for their products. It’s happening in all fields from musicians, bands, artists and authors, for example. There are more creative and talented people than there is market hence the ‘talent churning’ in these fields.)
Unfortunately, the reviewers were very unimpressed and gave it a disappointing 6/10. The review concludes as follows:-

“……….Some of these crashes brought the app down, others rebooted the computers. Also, shortly before we went to press, Tascam warned that using the Quicksound database to convert older Giga libraries to GS4 format would render them useless. Yikes!!
GigaStudio is clunky and, worse, unpredictable. We expect more from software that’s been around this long, especially given its price tag. There are some good ideas here, but we just can’t recommend it in its current state, and would suggest hanging on to that upgrade fee until Tascam works out the kinks.”

I’ve worked in industry all my life and things have changed in the last 20yrs now that Accountants and Programme Managers rule the roost. In the old days there was a, reciprocated, moral and ethical understanding when dealing with suppliers and customers, but around 20 years ago (for the first time in my career) the company I worked for delivered incomplete equipment in order to meet a ‘milestone payment’. Honour and pride seem to have disappeared. In this case the equipment was delivered on a Friday and was rejected back by the following Tuesday……these chaps are just playing silly political games and wasting everyone’s time and energy.

What has this got to do with the Tascam situation? Well looking at the appalling review of GS, it is clear that Tascam was in a cash burn situation and were forced to release it as it was; knowing that it wasn’t finished (FAR from finished). In line with this modern business culture, perhaps they released it to see what the response and take up was, before throwing even more money at it. This might be an understandable, but selfish, idea from their viewpoint but is pretty hard on anyone who coughed up for it as Tascam might have already decided to call it a day if the take-up was poor.

I DO understand that business is business and money is money and I am actually pretty commercially minded but I think that some of today’s business activities are bordering on the unacceptable. I’m not even going to mention the embarrassingly large self awards that the executives make to themselves these days…..often regardless of profits or loss!

You’ve had your ‘main course’ of my dinner, now here’s the sweet to finish off with:-

A thought I had, that went through my crazy mind, was that maybe some of Tascam’s programmers were involved with PlayPro! Nick Phoenix did say, earlier in this thread, that it currently looks a bit like GS!

Cheers

Frank

Many people are still running machines with GS3 or GS2.5 – believe me! If all of those users had upgraded to GS4 we wouldn't be in this situation.

For all of folks' griping (legitimately or otherwise) about what TASCAM has or hasn't done over the past seven years—and in the last month—I wonder how many of them have taken their own singular and collective inaction into account...

My sense is that the "lack of support" in this case was bilateral... and now everyone has lost out...

Unfortunately, the reviewers were very unimpressed and gave it a disappointing 6/10.

GigaPulse, didn't have any documentation for over a year. Nothing.
Yes, iMIDI replaced the performance tool in VSL. But did anyone write a series of tutorials explaining how? No, they didn't.

people dont really know how to use iMIDI, what a waste!

“……….Some of these crashes brought the app down, others rebooted the computers. Also, shortly before we went to press, Tascam warned that using the Quicksound database to convert older Giga libraries to GS4 format would render them useless. Yikes!!

GigaStudio is clunky and, worse, unpredictable. We expect more from software that’s been around this long, especially given its price tag. There are some good ideas here, but we just can’t recommend it in its current state, and would suggest hanging on to that upgrade fee until Tascam works out the kinks.”

You can't blame a company for discontinuing a product that isn't selling.

British magazines like CM love to slag products and never contact a manufacturer when they have troubles. I'd like to know more about the system he installed on. Most of you know that Giga wants to take over a computer and act as a dedicated sampler. If there was already a bunch of stuff on the computer there might be problems.

The rest of the post was speculation and nonsense. I don't see a single fact in there. It's amazing what people can make up on the internet. I suppose the NS trolls had to find us one day.

Especially "far from finished," this is the most stable sampler I've used since my Roland S-760.

Well said, Frank. Innovation is never as inextricably bound to success as we might like it to be.

I'm not arguing what led to the downfall of GS. Others can probably articulate that story better than I. As a product it had many good years. My point is only that it's currently not replaceable in the niche market that it serves. Unless you have another solution I could be made aware of?

Frank's point about it being those who build on good ideas ultimately being more successful than those who were the innovators is one which I don't think you can argue with. Take a handful of people and ask them who invented the personal computer. How many answer "Bill Gates?"

This situation is unfortunate. But we're talking computer software here. Life goes on. Music gets written.

-S

The reason we (I) waited so long to document iMIDI with VSL was that the performance tool was essentially VSL's copy protection. Once that was built into GS3 people could circumvent that and copy the library. Even a year or two ago, when I wrote the tutorial on using the iMIDI legato tool for VSL samples, I was expecting an email from them to pull it down.

That's a feature I'll miss a lot - porting over to Kontakt is bloating my libraries to about 1.5 the size and reducing audio fidelity....but of course it offers many perks, most of which I'll take a while to master. For now I'll just gripe

Belbin

British magazines like CM love to slag products and never contact a manufacturer when they have troubles.

Hi Thonex,

Perhaps I am the only one basking in ignorance, but -- I am able to load so much in Giga that I am surprised you are getting so much more into Kontakt. I think I have fiddled with the DFD settings until I am ready to -- something -- but I am sure I am not alone in wondering what you have been up to?

There is a useful "starting point" in the FAQ on NI's website regarding DFD settings, but beyond that, you may have created a new recipe.

So, congratulations! And if you are interested in discussing, maybe a new thread?

(For those interested, here's the link on NI: It's number 37 titled "Optimising Kontakt's Performance" http://www.native-instruments.com/knowledge/categories/Kontakt/Kontakt+2/?page=4 )