v.i. control forum

noiseboyuk · Senior Member

There's been a bit of fuss over at soundsonline recently regarding the non-existence of the Play intergration for Wordbuilder. Originally released early last year as two separate pieces of software, integration was promised in EWQL press materials "within 6 months" and as a free upgrade. I was told by EWQL some time after that that the software was in the "testing phase", but this apparently went badly since there's no sign of it appearing now several months later.

In a thread that at times was positively hair-raising - http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=26082 - Doug Rogers last week explained that the release is tied into Play Pro. He initially said that this would be a paid upgrade. When it was pointed out that this was contrary to the original promotional material, he then stated that a basic upgrade would, in fact, be free after all, but an "enhanced version" would cost (though we have no idea what "enhanced" means). This thread was then closed. A further thread, in the Symphonic Choirs subform - http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=25349 - has also just been closed - apparently it was felt the subject was getting "repetitive". Also - apparently - refunds have been offered to those who wanted Play integration, though I've yet to see how this would work in practice on products bought via third party sellers over the past year.

From my perspective, I wouldn't be too bothered about any of this if the current version actually worked reliably. Despite many protestations to the contrary from EWQL, it appears that many users still have fundamental problems with the software. In my case, WB drops consonants - it starts off OK then at some point all consonents stop working (this in Sonar 8.5). Restarting the audio engine sometimes brings it back, sometimes doesn't. A non-real time bounce WILL make the consonants sound. I took this issue through tech support several months ago (and several other forum members reported these symptoms), but they ended up not being able to trace the fault.

I decided to wait on Play integration at the time, which seemed reasonably imminent, but this now seems like it could even be years away at this point. So I've started a new thread at soundsonline to try to nail down this problem - grateful for anyone who has any consonant issues with WB in any host to contribute here - http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=26285 . All contributions and feeback gratefully received.

Dan-Jay · Senior Member

The most annoying thing about wordbuilder is that it's fricken VST-MA, why the hell would you make it that???

zareone · Senior Member

It's a shame. Let's hope they work on it after the release of Hollywood Strings.

I'm wanting the WB integration too, and I'm not going to purchase any other EW products until this is working. (be it fixing the current version, or with the WB integration)

Peter Alexander · Senior Member

@noiseboyuk

What are your complete system specs?

andreagiuseppe · New Member

I just bought it and it worked fine. I did one song and it sounded great everything worked the way it was supposed to. that is until i downloaded the updates for play, SC, and WB. now during playback and audio mixdown. the phrases start at random points or follow no pattern even when i reset position. so it is impossible to get the different parts to sing in sync.

dannthr · Senior Member

Wordbuilder has a panic button that resets the synch point to 0.

noiseboyuk · Senior Member

Peter Alexander @ Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:51 pm wrote:

@noiseboyuk

What are your complete system specs?

Hi Peter:

MAIN
Q6600, 4GB RAM 3GB switch, XP 32bit, Sonar 8.5.2, Edirol UA101

SLAVE
T7250, 2GB RAM, XP 32bit

Main software - Play, Kontakt 3.5, VE Pro, Omnisphere, EZ Drummer.

On my original thread on the subject - http://www.soundsonline-forums.com/showthread.php?t=22127 - other Sonar users and also some Cubase users had the same symptoms.

Ironically, I DON'T have the not-resetting or slow text input bugs that others do have! It's a tricky bugger, wordbuilder....

In other news, Doug told me that there is no refund program, but he's offered to refund some individual cases on some non-supported hosts. Makes no sense to me whatsoever that, there must be something I'm missing... why refund people on non-supported hosts?!

Mike Connelly · Senior Member

That's absolutely shameful, but not surprising. They did a similar thing with the original Stormdrum, promising that it would get a free update to PLAY, then not just changing their mind, but denying they ever said that in the first place, including deleting posts on their forum where it was promised. When I called them on it, I was banned from their forum.

The delays themselves are bad enough, but Doug's responses to the very valid complaints of his paying customers are just shocking. The company promises something within a specific timeframe, then when they fail to deliver, the customers are somehow the bad guy for pointing that out? Unbelievable.

noiseboyuk, do you have any more specifics about users getting refunds?

I hope newbies to EW products read these threads before taking the plunge for Hollywood Strings (now delayed) - if there are any problems with the product, who knows if or when they will ever be fixed and if they'll charge money for those fixes.

noiseboyuk · Senior Member

Mike Connelly @ Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:18 pm wrote:

noiseboyuk, do you have any more specifics about users getting refunds?

'Friad not, Mike. I genuinely don't understand what it's all about - it's something to do with basing purchases on the promised Play upgrade, but the unsupported hosts baffles me... perhaps it refers to people who can't use WB in any mode other than standalone? The whole situation is bizarre. If anyone thinks they have a case (though I don't know what qualifies as a case), I'd PM Doug directly - any discussion of this on soundsonline seems to get the thread closed.

It is bizarre PR, to be sure... everyone seems to get misty-eyed over Jennifer over there, perhaps she needs to be put in charge of this?!!

Pochflyboy · Senior Member

I just would love to know why in the world someone would think it is a good idea to purchase a VI knowing that it will not work with their host with simply the understanding that at some point in the future it will be upgraded. Seems silly to me. I have never had EW turn me away for technical support no matter how much work it takes so if it is a technical thing then they will help out. Otherwise if someone is just upset because they jumped the gun on buying it... then I am sorry but I think that is just kinda too bad.

noiseboyuk · Senior Member

I know what you mean Joseph... yet they are offering some people refunds.

I want to pick you up on one point though... in my case Tech support couldn't fix the problem. I'm just trying to get it reliable on my system... where do I go from here?

Pochflyboy · Senior Member

Well I think the refunds are certainly in good faith to show that they never said their future plans to get more sales.

I am baffled as to why you are getting your dropouts. I would think 4GB would be enough but perhaps I am wrong. If I were you I would completely reload my system. That could fix it if there is an issue with a processes causing issues in the background. Where did tech support leave you hanging last time you talked with them?

noiseboyuk · Senior Member

Well, they couldn't recreate the fault and none of us that had it were able to come up with a repeatable procedure that would set it off either. At the time I was quite philosophical because it looked like Play integration was around the corner, but now of course things are different.

It'll happen on an otherwise blank project, so that's only half a gig really - don't think its RAM related.

Mad Kiltie · Member

I have seen the dropped consonant's in both Sonar 8.3 and 8.5 on Windows XP (32 bit), with 4gb RAM. I am also in the same boat that I could never reproduce 100%. Interestingly, I have not seen the issue since upgrading to a Windows 7 (64 bit) system, with 12gb RAM.

I should also make it clear that I have not done a lot of work with wordbuilder since I upgraded my DAW besides loading up all older projects and to setting up to use the 64 bit PLAY vst. I did tweak with one particular project that gave me problems in the past however it worked and remained stable.

Derek

Nathan Allen Pinard · Senior Member

OP:

Are you talking about Play integration as in WB is INSIDE the plugin, and not standalone?

That would rock.

noiseboyuk · Senior Member

Thanks Derek for the input, much appreciated.

Nathan - yes, the idea (one fine day) is that WB will exist inside Play.

Pochflyboy · Senior Member

Do you still get the consonant drops when you increase your asio latency buffers? This sounds to me like it is a speed processing thing, much like dropped notes.

Martin Hines · Senior Member

Pochflyboy @ Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:11 am wrote:

I just would love to know why in the world someone would think it is a good idea to purchase a VI knowing that it will not work with their host with simply the understanding that at some point in the future it will be upgraded. Seems silly to me.

This isn't always the Buyer's fault. Originally all of the advertising for PLAY titles stated RTAS support, but it wasn't their initially. EastWest did modify their advertising to state "future release", but a few people got burned. The lack of RTAS support was eventually resolved.

Nathan Allen Pinard · Senior Member

SC works fine with WB outside of the client if set up properly.

noiseboyuk · Senior Member

Pochflyboy @ Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:57 pm wrote:

Do you still get the consonant drops when you increase your asio latency buffers? This sounds to me like it is a speed processing thing, much like dropped notes.

Can ASIO settings affect internal midi information? Interesting theory, I'll give it a go - sadly I tried just now and Sonar crashed out, and the computer is mid-ftp-download with tomorrow's work and I don't want to reset it tonight. Will give it a go though, cheers.

noiseboyuk · Senior Member

Post script to previous - tried again today but no difference with ASIO settings at max.

The one thing that must be diagnostically useful for EWQL is that AFAIK for all of us with this problem, the issues only starts when there has been some transport activity. Today it was fine until I pressed play... tomorrow it will probably be different, but it ALWAYS loads ok first time.

snowleopard · Senior Member

Where did you hear that info about the refund? Here is all I could find:

"The company already offered a refund in the other topic to anyone that purchased this for an unsupported host based on the information discussed on the forum last year."

Emphasis mine.

noiseboyuk · Senior Member

Yes, Doug PM'd me to say there is no refund program. I don't know what "unsupported hosts" means in this context, but he's offered to refund some specific individuals for some reason. As I wrote above, all I can suggest is to PM Doug directly if you think you qualify - though I don't know who qualifies, or why.