----------------------------------- SvK Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:28 pm TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) Let's take a Dry (important) Bass Clarinet. 1) Set up a Altiverb Bus with the 8m Todd AO 2) In Altiverb turn off Direct, Placement and Tail...ONLY Leave on the EarlReflections....mix is 100% WET. 3)Send dry Bass Clarinet to that Early Reflection 4)Using a level meter make sure that Early Reflection Buss is circa 2 db LOUDER than the Dry Clarinet sound. That's It! Here is the example file........first you'll hear dry Clari, then dry clari+Early Refl., then dry clari+Early Refl.+Tail Click on "Bass_Clari_ER.mp3.zip" http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.woa/wa/default?user=svonkampen&templatefn=FileSharing1.html&xmlfn=TKDocument.1.xml&sitefn=RootSite.xml&aff=consumer&cty=US&lang=en PS: For Violins and Violas, use the 3m early reflection.....and on these the relationship is the Early Reflec. is circa 6db LOWER than dry Dry Violins....... you get the idea...notice how dialing in the Early Reflections correctly on the Bass Clari brought out the low-end? Just how it is in reality (now you don't need to EQ, nature did it for you) SvK ----------------------------------- Niah Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:04 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applyng Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Nice post Steven, this is really helpful. :-) ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:07 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applyng Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Always look forward to your teaching examples Svk and your clear understanding of space creation / mixing. :D Following this logic would you set the brass at the 11m mics and run them about 4-6 db more on the ER bus than the source bus (on the various meters)? Of course season to taste - material dependent. (would you still pan the tails away from the pan of the source (as mentioned in another thread)? Thanks again. Rob (btw - Altiverb using Todd AO - single best purchase I have made in the last 2 years - no question. Gives a 'facelift' to everything - especially the strings). ----------------------------------- SvK Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:20 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applyng Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- That's exactly right ;-) BUt I backed off from the ER a tad with the Brass and Basses (to taste like you said) Keep in mind to "listen" to the samples......Apass1, Epic Horns have alot of ER smear in them, so a little less on them......... Your theory is correct though!!! ps: I gave my Todd Tails a 4db boost @ 4000Hz BTW..... Ohhh last thing : on the TailOnly Busses adjust the pre-delay to accommodate for the ER's........I think I dialed in 3m=50ms, 8m=70ms, 12m=80ms.....so adjust them so that the tails kick in right after ER subsides...... SvK ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:40 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applyng Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Great Svk - wonderful follow up notes. The 4k boost is probably smart - I'll give that a try. The 'pre-delay' idea is solid - hadn't even thought to do that. Thanks again. ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:02 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applyng Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- That's exactly right ;-) BUt I backed off from the ER a tad with the Brass and Basses (to taste like you said) Keep in mind to "listen" to the samples......Apass1, Epic Horns have alot of ER smear in them, so a little less on them......... Your theory is correct though!!! ps: I gave my Todd Tails a 4db boost @ 4000Hz BTW..... Ohhh last thing : on the TailOnly Busses adjust the pre-delay to accommodate for the ER's........I think I dialed in 3m=50ms, 8m=70ms, 12m=80ms.....so adjust them so that the tails kick in right after ER subsides...... SvK SvK - Working with this idea and wanted to ask a quick question or two. For the 'tails' AV instances I have the early refl turned to about -6.5 db - what are you finding the best setting there? ...and related... the idea of 3m=50ms, 8m=70ms, 12m=80ms.....so adjust them so that the tails kick in right after ER subsides...... how can you 'listen' for the early refl time? My first impression of setting these three tails to the above is that I get more 'depth' the mix. Dialing in these three to something less gives me more definition but of course less depth. Thanks in advance for you reply Svk. Rob ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:19 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applyng Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Wow - experimenting here I discovered that on the 'tails' to keep the early reflection knob at 0 db (noon) - while implementing your 50,70 and 80 ms pre delay idea. I LOVE IT. Brings more clarity without being 'stark'. Really love it - great idea Svk!! Rob ----------------------------------- SvK Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:02 pm ----------------------------------- Rob, you misundertand me..... 6 altiverb instances: In 3 of them the only thing activated is the ERs In the other 3 the only thing activated is the tails..... So flutes for example would have 2 send knobs....one sending to the ER instance and the other to the Tail instance........ SvK ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:43 pm ----------------------------------- Rob, you misundertand me..... 6 altiverb instances: In 3 of them the only thing activated is the ERs In the other 3 the only thing activated is the tails..... So flutes for example would have 2 send knobs....one sending to the ER instance and the other to the Tail instance........ SvK Oh for sure that is what I have set up - I just had the tails set up with the ER on but lower volume set by 6-7 db. :oops: Tomorrow when I get into the studio I'll be sure to turn the ER off on the tails and set the 'predelay' on the tail to 50,70, and 80 - thanks Svk for straightening me out on this. All the best, Rob ----------------------------------- wonshu Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:00 am ----------------------------------- Did you ever try achieving the same using Logics Space Designer? And if so, are there IRs out there that make this effect possible in Space Designer? Thanks and best Hans ----------------------------------- SvK Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:49 am ----------------------------------- Make it 70 80 90 Also on winds the ER should be circa 1 db LOWER than direct stem wonshu....I am using Space Designer........I have versions of the Altiverb instances for Space Designer.........I can't share them on this site....... I got into trouble some time ago for doing do.... SvK ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:00 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Thanks on this Svk Make it 70 80 90 Rob ----------------------------------- FireGS Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:47 am ----------------------------------- So, Stephen, what happened to the 2 busses for the Tail? You used to do it this way a while back, the ones for ER, then one for tail w/ like 60ms something pre delay, then another one further back at 90ms predelay. Any reason this is no good? ----------------------------------- SvK Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:57 am ----------------------------------- FireGs: That's right I also have 3 seperate busses for "tail-only" as listed above....... It is the tails that recieve pre-delay values......the pre-delays on the ER's stay @ zero. SvK ----------------------------------- FireGS Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:32 pm ----------------------------------- Oh my bad. I missed that part above. Now i understand Rob Elliot's post! :P ----------------------------------- Jack Weaver Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:45 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Hi SvK, What do you do for orchestral basses & percussion? Love the thread! Thanks for sharing this stuff with us. Best regards, Jack ----------------------------------- FireGS Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:55 pm ----------------------------------- Yes, I'm very curious about percussion, too. I find that I use a totally different approach to Percussion, except for Cymbals and Snares. Those two seem to be very affected by improper reberm. Toms, and just big loud booms, and such can use their own, different reverb. SD2 Reverb works fine for most of its stuff. What do you do? ----------------------------------- SvK Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:24 pm ----------------------------------- Jack, My percussion palette is True Strike....so no ER's / Tails are needed as it is built-in to the samples.... Basses : Basses are sent to the 12m Early Reflection....The ER and The Dry Stem are equal volume........dry stem is panned to circa 2pm.......... (Naturally all 3 ER stems are panned dead-center) SvK ----------------------------------- Jack Weaver Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:22 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Merci, will try it. . ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:20 am ----------------------------------- Jack, My percussion palette is True Strike....so no ER's / Tails are needed as it is built-in to the samples.... Basses : Basses are sent to the 12m Early Reflection....The ER and The Dry Stem are equal volume........dry stem is panned to circa 2pm.......... (Naturally all 3 ER stems are panned dead-center) SvK Thanks again Stephen. "IF" you were using VSL - and following the logic of your other instruments - how would you set up the Percussion (mics, tails and ER). Right now I am setting up the farthest mics and tails with moderate results (fine line between not enough 'room' and too swimmy.) Thanks in advance. Rob ----------------------------------- SvK Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:54 pm ----------------------------------- I would send the timps an such to the 12mter ER with the ER being slightly louder than the dry stem (circa 1 to 2 db louder) Have you tried the "Westlake" Drum room? Sounds awesome on drums / orchestraL Percussion etc, if uyou use that then just add the 12 m Todd Tail. SvK ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:53 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Thanks Stephen - I'll give that a try. All the best, Rob ----------------------------------- SvK Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:12 pm ----------------------------------- Rob, Sure thing Clinton Studios 8.3meter (ER and Tail) + Todd AO 12 meter tail@90pre delay sounds terrific...... It's the bomb.... SvK ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:01 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Clinton for percussion - very cool - I'll look at that one. I like the idea of the two tails for percussion. Give the impression of distance without being swimmy- mushy. Thanks again. Rob ----------------------------------- SvK Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:46 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- The clinton is fat / short... The add tail of Todd and your there. SvK ----------------------------------- Waywyn Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:13 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Thanks for posting this! I will try to expirement with this later on tomorrow!! :) ----------------------------------- SvK Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:39 pm ----------------------------------- Remember to do all of this sending Parallel...NOT serial ...that will sound totally wrong..... What I mean to say is do NOT have the Clinton followed by the Todd Tail...... Both get placed on "seperate" busses VERY IMPORTANT SvK ----------------------------------- Waywyn Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:04 am ----------------------------------- Remember to do all of this sending Parallel...NOT serial ...that will sound totally wrong..... What I mean to say is do NOT have the Clinton followed by the Todd Tail...... Both get placed on "seperate" busses VERY IMPORTANT SvK Hey Svon, I get the whole idea but dont understand why you put Altiverbs ER and the AV tails on two different busses? Why does it sound different when opening two AV instances on one bus - one after each other? ----------------------------------- Ashermusic Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:35 am ----------------------------------- Remember to do all of this sending Parallel...NOT serial ...that will sound totally wrong..... What I mean to say is do NOT have the Clinton followed by the Todd Tail...... Both get placed on "seperate" busses VERY IMPORTANT SvK Hey Svon, I get the whole idea but dont understand why you put Altiverbs ER and the AV tails on two different busses? Why does it sound different when opening two AV instances on one bus - one after each other? Because you can individually control the amount you send to each instead of having to do it globally within each GUI. If I buy the concept, I buy the execution. ----------------------------------- Waywyn Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:44 am ----------------------------------- Remember to do all of this sending Parallel...NOT serial ...that will sound totally wrong..... What I mean to say is do NOT have the Clinton followed by the Todd Tail...... Both get placed on "seperate" busses VERY IMPORTANT SvK Hey Svon, I get the whole idea but dont understand why you put Altiverbs ER and the AV tails on two different busses? Why does it sound different when opening two AV instances on one bus - one after each other? Because you can individually control the amount you send to each instead of having to do it globally within each GUI. If I buy the concept, I buy the execution. Oh, sorry, when I hear busses I am thinking of groups and not send/returns. That makes of course sense. ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:53 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- And I must say - having this 'control' (per cue) makes ALL the difference!!! Rob ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:59 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Freaking A Stephen - the combo of Clinton and Todd AO for percussion is brilliant!!!!!!!!!!! Took my VSL timp and gave them so much power. Wow! Many thanks. Rob ----------------------------------- SvK Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:54 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Rob, ;-) ----------------------------------- artinro Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:53 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- SvK, Your tutorials and hints on this and other forums are always most appreciated. Thank you very much for posting this information and for your willingness to help answer questions. Perhaps I could ask one question: do your mic distances on your tail busses mirror the corresponding ones in your ER busses? Or do you stick with one mic distance for each instance of tail and only alter the tail predelay? Thanks so much again for your wonderful lessons. Cheers, -Art ----------------------------------- Ashermusic Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:36 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- I was skeptical of how much difference SvK's approach would make but after fooling around with it a bit, I am impressed. Kudos, Stephen. ----------------------------------- Blackster Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:13 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- This theory sounds really interesting and according to your comments it IS certainly one very good way to go. Unfortunately I don�t own AV yet, so is it possible to post a little example of what the whole orchestra sounds like when using this busses? ... many thanks in advanced for that. btw: because of your comments I definitely think about getting AV and Todd AO. Sounds like a must-have plugin :) ... ----------------------------------- Waywyn Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:40 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Okay, I tried a bit with the settings and hear a significant difference in the samples. Thanks again for posting this! Although I tried with different settings, but generally it is cool to use ERs from other Impulses before using the ToddAO reverb as a tail. I also tried to leave the ER from ToddAO switched on. Also nice signal. So in the end I really liked the Teldex Berlin 5m ER only with around 50% delay. Tail turned off of course. Then routed this signal into the ToddAO IR but leaving the ER on. Since I am working with busses/groups I loaded 2 AV instance right after each other and put the dry/wet on both instances to around 70% wet. (iIf you do that it is important to mute direct, since you get terrible phasing otherwise :)) Always good to read such experiments with reverb, since this seems to be most important when working with samples. Reverb can make so much sound very good, but can also destroy something if applied wrong. ----------------------------------- Rob Elliott Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:19 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- I was skeptical of how much difference SvK's approach would make but after fooling around with it a bit, I am impressed. Kudos, Stephen. Sorry to embarrass you Stephen but not many have a better set of ears and have such a deep understanding in getting the most from mixing samples. Your talents heare are nothing short of brilliant. Many thanks for all you have help me and others on this and the VSL boards. Just delivered a indie feature to the director and he can hear the difference between this project and the one I did for him last year. Comments were actually made about the 'mix' (warm yet clear, etc...) :D Thanks again. Best fortunes to you. Rob ----------------------------------- SvK Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:19 am ----------------------------------- Guys, Thanx ! SvK ----------------------------------- the sinner Tue May 13, 2008 9:33 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Thank you for your time on this tutorial. I was reading it, after putting time in trying to figure out it on my own, and found myself going duh - of course. 1) I do have a question regarding the ratio of DB from the ER signal to the Dry signal. How are you figuring this out? Some kind of math formula? 2) Also according to the purest theories on convolution, doesn't the whole dry signal need to go into the convolution to actually get the room sound? Then one would instead find the proper dry/wet ratio instead of what send level to the bus. Also I wish I had a picture/map of an orchestra set up infront of the TODD AO IR so that way I could take proper measurements to find the delay on the tails ----------------------------------- musicpete Tue May 13, 2008 10:01 pm ----------------------------------- Thanks for sharing your knowledge in such a generous way, Steven! ----------------------------------- Jaap Wed May 14, 2008 4:12 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Wow! This is really great. Thanks for providing this info. It opened my eyes haha. ----------------------------------- JT3_Jon Tue May 27, 2008 8:59 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Thank you for your time on this tutorial. I was reading it, after putting time in trying to figure out it on my own, and found myself going duh - of course. 1) I do have a question regarding the ratio of DB from the ER signal to the Dry signal. How are you figuring this out? Some kind of math formula? 2) Also according to the purest theories on convolution, doesn't the whole dry signal need to go into the convolution to actually get the room sound? Then one would instead find the proper dry/wet ratio instead of what send level to the bus. Also I wish I had a picture/map of an orchestra set up infront of the TODD AO IR so that way I could take proper measurements to find the delay on the tails Very curious about the answers to these questions as well! Thanks for the great tutorial SVK. I dont have Altiverb, but am going to see what I can come up with in Space Designer/Logic. ----------------------------------- Mahlon Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:32 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Am I correct in assuming that on all these 'sends', you are using a 'pre send' send rather than 'post send'? Mahlon p.s. I've noticed that the Esterhazy (Grand Hall?) sounds very good, too. ----------------------------------- Adelmo Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:05 am ----------------------------------- Am I correct in assuming that on all these 'sends', you are using a 'pre send' send rather than 'post send'? Mahlon would be good to know, as both give interesting results A ----------------------------------- Dave Connor Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:58 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- SvK is now using post fader sends so that he can adjust his volume level on the channel and not throw things out of balance. ----------------------------------- vicontrolu Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:44 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Sorry to make such a dumb question but..whats the point of having thre different instances of the same tail? arent this instruments supposed to be placed on the same stage? then if the ERs are treated separately the rev tail should be the same, no? Is it only becaue they need different pre-delays? cause this could be solved on a very more efficient way. Thx. ----------------------------------- SvK Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:03 pm ----------------------------------- they are not the same tail ..They are all different. Slightly so but different. SvK ----------------------------------- vicontrolu Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:41 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Well...how do they differ please? I read again the whole post but there�s no detail about which settings you use on each one of the tails.. :roll: Thanks! ----------------------------------- Leon Willett Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:15 am ----------------------------------- They are different because they are recorded at different distances from the impulse source. The room will sound different if you are 3.5 meters away from a loud bang, than if you are 11 meters away from a loud bang. ----------------------------------- vicontrolu Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:37 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Oh damn, so it was a completely different impulse, not the same one tweaked. Thanks Leon. ----------------------------------- Cinemascore Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:30 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Oh damn, so it was a completely different impulse, not the same one tweaked. Thanks Leon. There are actually nine separate impulses from the "narrow" (conductor's podium flanked omnis) mics, and another nine taken from the "far" (widely spaced omnis placed closer to the control room, yet farther in front of the orchestra) mics, for a total of 18 different and distinct impulses responses. ----------------------------------- vicontrolu Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:12 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- I see. I am curious to know how you differently send to the different busses depending on the library. For example, the easiest thing to put in the Toddao place for sure is VSL as they are super dry. But then for example if you mix Symphobia (close patches) on the same session the amount of set should be quite different as they already have some sese of position (i guess ER recorded in the sample). Not to mention EWQL platinum: close patches not oly have ERs but a decent amount of reverb tail on them. Do you always remove RT groups then send fully to the busses like with VSL or you try to keep something about the original samples? ----------------------------------- SvK Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:41 pm ----------------------------------- i do not believe in using ER's on libraries with baked in halls ..... you're asking for trouble... SvK ----------------------------------- vibrato Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:04 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Hi! Svk, Thanks for sharing your settings. I wanted to ask the reason why you use different tails for every section? I only use a single Master Tail for everything right now. I thought thats how most people were setting up their Altiverbs. Also something I would love for you to share is how you create the Dynamic Range for the set up? For example - I keep my original VSL levels very low - Inside Vienna Ensemble - lot of things are -3dB by default in my template - then when it comes into Cubase - everything is -5 dB on the incoming channels - and finally - I also reduce the Input levels on Altiverb by about 4-6 dB - depending on which section I am using. What I found by doing this - is that it gave me a lot of headroom and Dynamic Range - to pull up the track to decent levels in the end by using Vintage Warmer or Waves Ultramizer. Your thoughts? Thanks for sharing again - not many people do this - and this is just a great act - I am sure so many people will appreciate this. Tanuj. ----------------------------------- SvK Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:05 pm Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- Hi as Leon said earlier: "The tails are different because they are recorded at different distances from the impulse source. The room will sound different if you are 3.5 meters away from a loud bang, than if you are 11 meters away from a loud bang." best, SvK ----------------------------------- SvK Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:11 pm ----------------------------------- Vibrato, one more thing in addition to the Todd er's and tails, I DO have an additional master longer tail that is artificial... It is dialed in lower in volume than the Todd AO. I mix it so when the Todd AO tails end, it continues for a super smooth decay. SvK ----------------------------------- SvK Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:12 pm ----------------------------------- Vibrato, concerning dynamic range, I do the same.... SvK ----------------------------------- vicontrolu Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:06 am ----------------------------------- i do not believe in using ER's on libraries with baked in halls ..... you're asking for trouble... SvK So you only use dry libraries on your session, right? Or you mean that you only send the ones with baked halls to the tails at taste, but never to the ERs? ----------------------------------- SvK Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:12 am ----------------------------------- Vicontrolu.... " Or you mean that you only send the ones with baked halls to the tails at taste, but never to the ERs?" Exactly. SvK ----------------------------------- Fhl Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:46 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- great thread! Thanks for sharing:) Also, all the follow up posts answered all my questions ;) ----------------------------------- vicontrolu Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:03 am Re: TUTORIAL: Applying Early Reflections to get THAT SOUND ;-) ----------------------------------- After a while working with this setup i gotta say it sounds really good! What plugin reverbs do you use in the master section, to give this smooth fading tail to the overall sound? Someone in this forum suggeted Eos (really cheap!) and also Aether is quite mentioned here. Thanks! ----------------------------------- Imzadi Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm ----------------------------------- Very interesting thread. Do you take into consideration the distance of the direct sounds? (by delaying the direct sound) Or by using ER you achieve that effect as well?