v.i. control forum

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin

Peter Emanuel Roos — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:45:15 GMT

Author: Peter Emanuel Roos
Subject: Re: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:45 am (GMT -7)

Jaap @ Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:25 pm wrote:

Very very interesting! Beside being less demanding on my wallet, I hope it will also be less demanding in resources needed to run this? MIR is very heavy when it comes to computer specs. Can you shine a light already on how this will be?

In my enthousiasm over the first tests, I may have already disclosed too much

I cannot say anything over performance yet - because I have not yet tested my intended run-time IR mixing. My goal is zero latency, let's pray I can get that working! And my other goal is that you will be able to run at least 8-16 instances on a modest mixing DAW. For a full orchestral setup you may want to run 16-32 instances with the appropriate presets.

Best,

Peter
_________________
Peter Emanuel Roos
Music - FaceBook - Download a FREE BRICASTI M7 IR library from Samplicity.com!

Post Pro & Mixing Discussion :: RE: Reverb and ER's... should we care at all?

EnTaroAdun — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:44:49 GMT

Author: EnTaroAdun
Subject: Re: Reverb and ER's... should we care at all?
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:44 am (GMT -7)

Ok, I can understand that.

Anyways .. I'm expecting something great.
I think with the right designed spaces you should be able to get actually better IRs as it would be possible to get with real recordings.
Even this small tool from Voxengo (Impulse Modeler) is already capable to produce some really high quality IRs (even though it's only a 2D-simulation).

Your Digital Audio Workstation :: RE: DDR3 speed benefit for streaming - 10666 vs 16000?

JohnG — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:43:18 GMT

Author: JohnG
Subject: Re: DDR3 speed benefit for streaming - 10666 vs 16000?
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:43 am (GMT -7)

Hi Ian,

You can do a lot with 12 GB of RAM, but if you are building from scratch I suspect it's worth going for more.

I am thinking about adding a bit to my computer, which in other respects is pretty comparable to the one you have mooted.
_________________
Kind regards,

John
www.johngrahammusic.com

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: The Art of Demos

Folmann — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:31:23 GMT

Author: Folmann
Subject: Re: The Art of Demos
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:31 am (GMT -7)

Interesting to hear demos from Motif series, which was about 10 years later then the U110 and Korg M1. I recall so many units having "New Jack Swing" kinda demos - all hip and 90s cool. However I don't think the later demos (ex. Motif) represent the same leap as we saw on earlier units like Korg M1. The three biggest "sample" leaps I recall was:

0. Introduction of sampling technology (ex. Fairlight/Mirage)
1. Introduction of (consumer level) based multi-timbral units (ex. Roland MT32)
2. PCM (consumer level) sample based units (ex. Korg M1 / Roland U110)
3. Streaming/HD based (consumer level) samples (ex. Gigastudio)

We have incremental revolutions within these categories, but for me they represent the biggest technological leaps. It kinda makes you think what is next and physical modeling seems so obvious, yet so far away in many aspects.
_________________
http://www.troelsfolmann.com
British Academy Award� Winning Composer
https://twitter.com/tonehammer

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin

Jaap — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:25:47 GMT

Author: Jaap
Subject: Re: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:25 am (GMT -7)

Very very interesting! Beside being less demanding on my wallet, I hope it will also be less demanding in resources needed to run this? MIR is very heavy when it comes to computer specs. Can you shine a light already on how this will be?
_________________
www.3peakaudio.com

Member's Composition Review :: RE: Misgiving - cinematic strings

snapshot — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:24:57 GMT

Author: snapshot
Subject: Re: Misgiving - cinematic strings
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:24 am (GMT -7)

wow ! wonderful piece of music , thank you !!!!!!

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: Sampled strings vs. live strings - still a difference?

windshore — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:18:34 GMT

Author: windshore
Subject: Re: Sampled strings vs. live strings - still a difference?
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:18 am (GMT -7)

Whether we can hear the difference or not is one thing... whether young directors and young audiences do might be another. (-and then if they do, which do they prefer?)

Irrespective of what is best, the last decade in particular has been a time that has featured low-budget production music. Because it has lasted so long it has created a whole aesthetic of its own. Younger producers/ directors now often want that "aesthetic" and not the sound of a bunch of live players.

Yes they may hear the difference, but they often want the virtual version. Maybe because it works with the bombastic percussion and scratch track that really drives the piece - but for whatever reason, more and more often I see that "live sounding" equals "dated" for many younger professionals in the entertainment biz.

Composition, Orchestration & Technique :: RE: Help me improve my string trio

bryla — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:18:07 GMT

Author: bryla
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:18 am (GMT -7)

Thanks Jay. Even though I have his romantic violin I forgot about his solo strings. How well equipped are they for modern music with regards to articulations?
_________________
Thomas Bryla on iTunes
winner of the Most Dedicated LSO Audience Member award
"The film is not made for your soundtrack" - Rune Funch

Member's Composition Review :: RE: Misgiving - cinematic strings

Guy Bacos — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:16:39 GMT

Author: Guy Bacos
Subject: Re: Misgiving - cinematic strings
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:16 am (GMT -7)

Rob, what would be interesting now is for you to do a more elaborate or complete piece, perhaps a mix of slow and fast notes.
_________________
What you don't know today, doesn't mean you won't know tomorrow.

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: The Art of Demos

gregjazz — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:09:44 GMT

Author: gregjazz
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:09 am (GMT -7)

Heh, yeah I remember Virt and I both got our Motifs around the same time, so it was cool hearing his work. That thing has incredible sounds for a what, 350 mb, onboard sound bank? Unbelievable.
_________________
Greg Schlaepfer
Orange Tree Samples
http://www.orangetreesamples.com

Your Digital Audio Workstation :: RE: Virtual Memory min too low on a 24GB ram machine (XP64)??

Rob Elliott — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:06:24 GMT

Author: Rob Elliott
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:06 am (GMT -7)

wst3 @ Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:20 am wrote:

one thought... Windows does some swapping even if you are not running low on physical memory, a throwback to the bad old days perhaps? There are registry entries that you can edit - at least for XP and Vista - that disable exec and kernel swapping. You might want to see if you can find a similar control for Win7.

Also, if you have not already done so, set the min and max swap space size to a single number so that Windows does not try to resize the swap space. That was always a performance killer, and from what I've read, in the X64 world it can cause even more trouble since with 24GB of RAM you won't be swapping often - and thus it will keep the swap space small until it thinks it needs it.

Let us know if either of these helps - some of us have not yet made the leap!

I am a bit of a novice with this sort of tweaking but my current virtual memory setting is 1024 MB - min AND max. I can go ahead and set that to 2048 MB min AND max if you think that will help.

(this puter is XP64)

Thanks again for the suggestion (for now - I'll stay clear of registry tweaks - unless you have a list of detailed instructions. )
_________________
"what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail?"

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin

Przemek K. — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:05:24 GMT

Author: Przemek K.
Subject: Re: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:05 am (GMT -7)

Very interesting. Keep us posted Peter.
_________________
best regards,

Przemyslaw K.

Your Digital Audio Workstation :: RE: DDR3 speed benefit for streaming - 10666 vs 16000?

Mahlon — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:53:59 GMT

Author: Mahlon
Subject: Re: DDR3 speed benefit for streaming - 10666 vs 16000?
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:53 am (GMT -7)

Ian Livingstone @ Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:04 am wrote:

�221.99 x 2 - OCZ Gold Low Voltage 12GB (3x4GB) DDR3 10666C9 1333MHz Triple Channel (OCZ3G1333LV12GK)
�204.25 x 2 - Crucial RealSSD C300 128GB 2.5" SATA 6Gbs Solid State Hard Drive (CTFDDAC128MAG-1G1)
�199.99 x 1 - Intel Core i7 950 3.06GHz (Bloomfield) (Socket LGA1366) - Retail
�127.65 x 1 - Asus P6X58D-E Intel X58 (Socket 1366) DDR3 Motherboard
�25.52 x 1 - Asus GeForce 8400GS 512MB DDR2 Low Profile PCI-Express Graphics Card

Will post back after they're built and let you know how they're performing.

Ian

Please do write back with your impressions of these machines' performance. I'm on the cusp of going 24 gig/one machine solution. I'm trying to figure out the whole i7/Xeon debate, and also in the short future (when it becomes affordable) the i7Quadcore/i7 hexa-core/Xeon debate. Things change so fast it's hard to keep up.

Mahlon

Member's Composition Review :: RE: Misgiving - cinematic strings

Jimbo 88 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:42:02 GMT

Author: Jimbo 88
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:42 am (GMT -7)

I really like the way this sounds. Great composition. I'm not sure if i would have come with this critique if I had not read the other posts....but i think the timps need a better entrance. I think the timps would be better with pickups into the section the play as opposed felling like a later entrance.

Just a thought.

Keep up the great work!!!

Composition, Orchestration & Technique :: RE: The music of Sergei Prokofiev

dcoscina — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:28:30 GMT

Author: dcoscina
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:28 am (GMT -7)

I'm partial to the Riccardo Muti reading of the Third (based on his Fiery Angel opera). I love those opening thunderous bi-tonal chords. I have a couple biographies on Prokofiev and there's some speculation that his opening motive is a parody of Stravinsky's Firebird. I do hear a similarity. Prokofiev was apparently a very witty fellow. Very intellectual

Member's Composition Review :: RE: Misgiving - cinematic strings

dcoscina — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:26:13 GMT

Author: dcoscina
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:26 am (GMT -7)

Not sure. I do think it would sound a bit better because of the richness of the samples but the power/time it would take would be much greater IMO.

My sense is that this was written for real strings and it would sound amazing right off the bat. This is a limitation of samples still. You almost have to write to their strengths which often means writing something that is sub-par in respect to overall quality.

The quality of the music is straight out great. Nice chord changes, good voice leading, etc. I just would never say "oh wow, that sounds exactly like real strings". then again, I still haven't heard a mock up that has fooled me- especially with long bowed samples. Short samples get close.

KONTAKT: Sampling, Programming & Scripting :: RE: [Free Script] EWQLSC Wordbuilder Multiscript [Updated to v1.3]

EvilDragon — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:21:56 GMT

Author: EvilDragon
Subject: Re: [Free Script] EWQLSC Wordbuilder Multiscript [Updated to v1.3]
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:21 am (GMT -7)

Let's tease you a little more:

http://a.imageshack.us/img121/1738/63606453.gif

_________________
If you need a KSP script, e-mail me: mario.kruselj@gmail.com!

Your Digital Audio Workstation :: RE: Virtual Memory min too low on a 24GB ram machine (XP64)??

wst3 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:20:16 GMT

Author: wst3
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:20 am (GMT -7)

one thought... Windows does some swapping even if you are not running low on physical memory, a throwback to the bad old days perhaps? There are registry entries that you can edit - at least for XP and Vista - that disable exec and kernel swapping. You might want to see if you can find a similar control for Win7.

Also, if you have not already done so, set the min and max swap space size to a single number so that Windows does not try to resize the swap space. That was always a performance killer, and from what I've read, in the X64 world it can cause even more trouble since with 24GB of RAM you won't be swapping often - and thus it will keep the swap space small until it thinks it needs it.

Let us know if either of these helps - some of us have not yet made the leap!

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin

dannthr — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:19:11 GMT

Author: dannthr
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:19 am (GMT -7)

Sounds cool--definitely keep us posted!
_________________
- Dan

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin

hbuus — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:11:47 GMT

Author: hbuus
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:11 am (GMT -7)

Sounds very interesting, Peter.

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: Sampled strings vs. live strings - still a difference?

wst3 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:10:30 GMT

Author: wst3
Subject: Re: Sampled strings vs. live strings - still a difference?
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:10 am (GMT -7)

tis a question I think we all ask, if only subconsciously... and here's my two cents:

Frederick hit the nail on the head, whether he meant to or not. I can pick out a sample based guitar, bass, mandolin, or steel part every time. That's not to suggest good or bad or any other judgment call other than "Appropriate". I still use a couple of the original EPS sampled guitar instruments from time to time exactly for the effect that they create. And I've certainly heard enough sampled guitar parts in everything from demos to game sound tracks to movie and TV soundtracks.

The trick is, I think, that I am much more apt to take notice if the use of the sampled guitar part is not (in my less than humble opinion) appropriate. If it is trying to sound like a human player, well, that seldom works for me.

I spent many years playing in a band with a 3 piece horn section, and not enough years playing in big bands, and thus I am also quite picky about sampled horns and especially saxes. But as I stopped playing any kind of brass instrument almost 30 years ago I have to depend on sample libraries most of the time, and it frustrates me. However, I have heard mockups of everything from 3 piece to big band horn charts, and they blow me away. So it can be done well, but it can not be done invisibly.

Which brings me around to the OP... strings. Once again I did spend many years playing bass in orchestras of varying size (and ability.) So I do know what a string section sounds like, and I can usually spot the sampled string sections. I have heard demos where I was dubious that they were really sample based until I spent the energy listening critically to catch the uniformity of the attacks, or the repeated samples, which eventually do become obvious.

And once again, I can't afford to hire an orchestra to record my pieces (yet<G>), so I have to do the best with the tools I have available to me, and the quality of those tools continues to improve dramatically.

For those that were around, who remembers the Kurzweil 250 demo cassette (yes, I said cassette!). That was an amazing piece of work. I have no idea how long they slaved over those demo pieces, but they were remarkable, and for those of us who weren't in line to by a Synclavier it as a real breakthrough!

Personally, it was the culmination of an idea I had chased from the days of the ARP 2600 and Korg MS-20. I always figured someday someone would figure out a way to make them sound more realistic. I was wrong about how, but I was right about the idea<G>!

There are quite a few folks here who can turn out a remarkable mock-up. I listen in awe, and then I return to the woodshed. These pieces are quite rewarding to listen to both artistically and critically. Would they sound different performed by a live orchestra? Yup! Better? That's a much more difficult call, and depends entirely on the ears of the listened.

There is something magical that happens when you put music in front of a bunch of musicians - whether it is a 90 piece orchestra or a power trio. There is an interaction between musicians that has not yet been replicated. Part of me hopes it never is<G>!

Now here's an odd thing, I think. The one instrument that has been sampled to the point where it just works for me is drums and percussion. Perfect? Not by a long stretch, but usable and convincing? Yes. At least for me I find the Toontrack libraries to be so authentic, and so "live" sounding that I have stopped worrying about where to put the drum kit! Well, not entirely true, I still value the input from a live drummer, they'll have ideas I'll never have. And with a little care you can still spot the sampled kit. But dang, they have gotten so close.

And lastly, a gripe. When I was much younger than today it was enough to show someone a sketch of a musical idea. It could be banging it out on a piano or guitar, it was enough. The people that made the business decisions could hear through the demo to the song/composition. I think that's largely a lost art these days.

The laziness or competition or whatever it is that drives the marketplace has made it necessary for someone to create a very polished demo. And as the ante is raised it becomes even more important.

About five years ago I wrote music for a production of "The Tempest". It was a community theatre company, and the director was my brother, with whom I've worked as lighting designer, sound designer, music director, and even composer. I played the themes as I envisioned them on my guitar in my living room and he signed off. Simple as that.

Fast forward four years and I agreed to be music director for a production of "Godspell." It turns out that the publisher has no issue with groups taking some artistic license with the original music, as long as the basic melody, and especially the lyric, remain unchanged. (unique in my experience, and pretty cool!)

All of the sudden this director with whom I've worked so often was unable to hear anything without a complete mock-up. I'd plink out an idea for an arrangement, in terms of tempo and feel, and he could not hear it. Was it that he had heard the original soundtrack one too many times? Or has he lost the ability to imagine? I don't know, but it created lots of challenges<G>! To the point where we did the show pretty much as written. Boring!!

On the plus side, the fact that this can afflict a director with whom I have worked so often makes it easier for me to accept that that same level of treatment is required pretty much across the board.

And don't get me wrong - even if I never played the mock-ups for others, I get tremendous satisfaction from hearing in my ears a close (and getting closer) approximation of what I hear in my head. I certainly would not want to be the one to slow the development of better libraries - except maybe for guitar<G>!

Member's Composition Review :: RE: Misgiving - cinematic strings

givemenoughrope — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:07:52 GMT

Author: givemenoughrope
Subject: Re: Misgiving - cinematic strings
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:07 am (GMT -7)

dcosina,

how much better would this sound with HS? also, how much more computer power/time would it take? just curious.
_________________
NO one has done more for film composers than me.

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin

Christian Marcussen — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:04:57 GMT

Author: Christian Marcussen
Subject: Re: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:04 am (GMT -7)

Sign me up

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin

dedersen — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 16:51:53 GMT

Author: dedersen
Subject: Re: Teaser topic for an upcoming Stage Positioning plugin
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:51 am (GMT -7)

Oh, this sounds really, really interesting. I'll be anxiously awaiting more info on this.

SAMPLE Talk :: RE: Sampled strings vs. live strings - still a difference?

Mike Connelly — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 16:11:39 GMT

Author: Mike Connelly
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:11 am (GMT -7)

Samples may not have an infinite range of expression, but when you go beyond just sampling you can get pretty far. And while midi has limitations of 128 levels of resolution, that's also something that can be overcome in the future if it becomes too limiting.