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The 12 Horns Battle (Blind Test)

Which version do you like most?

  • 1st (00:03)

  • 2nd (00:23)

  • 2rd (00:42)

  • 4th (01:02)

  • 5th (01:21)


Results are only viewable after voting.

Leandro Gardini

Senior Member
Hi there,

a perfect mockup will probably never exist but i think we should always strive for perfection.

Here is a short passage that has been originally composed for full orchestra and now has been re-orchestrated for 12 french horns.

On this file there are 5 versions of the same passage each using different libraries and/or mockup techniques.

This is a blind test and I need your opinion of which version you think sounds best and most important, why do you think so?



There are no right or wrong answers. It is just your opinion which will be appreciated.

Thank you!
 
They're all pretty good at playing the notes, I thought #4 was perhaps the best, especially the staccatos below the main line.

But all five have a very strange tone: "tubey" and snarling, almost like a megaphone. None of the examples really feel like horns in a room. All five examples reminded me of Infinite Brass or some less than ideal mockups of Sample Modeling Brass. Did you add some algorithmic or convolution reverb, or other effects, on all five instruments? I'd prefer to hear them out of the box with no added effects, even if that means they sound different.
 
With that mic setup...I can't say any is dramatically different or more serviceable to my ears. I would probably be more opinionated with closer mics. I went for #2 because it sounded somewhat closer.
 
To me they all seem a bit washy, but #1 seems to have the best intonation. #3, 4, and 5 seem like the rhythmic horns put mutes in.
 
Wow - they're all quite different. And there's parts of all of them I like / all of them I don't like.
The different way they react to the rooms is somewhat clouding my judgement.
Even just listening to the first few underscore shorts - the rooms are quite profoundly different - and this kind of changes how one reacts to the overall tone.
Not sure there is a clear winner / one I like the most - but will responses to each help?
#1. So here the reverb on the backing shorts just distracts me. I also feel there is a tonal jump between the accents of the backing staccs which feels unnatural. Perhaps it just feels like the accents are overdone. The top line I don't mind - though too wet for my taste. But its tone sits nicely when played repeatedly on its own. The final sfz is nice until it reaches f and it becomes a bit - ha - metallic - or shrill / nasal.
#2. The shorts at the top - I kind of like how I'm hearing the individual notes in each chord more here. It actually sounds less quantized - but could just be that the individual sounds have different attacks recorded at slightly different speeds. Or something. The balance between the backing ands the lead line is clearer than #1 (the tonal sound of the backing makes it sit back a little - it sounds a half or one dynamic lower at times... not the voume - just the tone.) Final 3 accents of the backing before the sfz are not great to me. Its that super loud sound which just sounds unnatural in the context of the part. Though its a nice intensity. :) . I like some of the attacks of the top line better than 1. Overall the tone of the top line is lovely and warm. Probably my fav TONE overall, but some of the attacks let it down. Actually, after a longer listening session, this is my fav. I'm hearing the individual horns more - have a listen to the final chord. I can make out WAY more of the notes very quickly here... to the point where the following versions seem to loose a note in the chord (is that just a balance thing? Or just the nature of notes with very similar properties when close together harmonically combining... ah psychoacoustics are fun. Indeed - one of the low notes is probably a bit loud / out of balance - but it helps me hear the chord.) . I do NOT like the room on this version though. And every other time I go back to it I want to place it WAY back in the list because of this. But trying to listen past that,.
#3. Not a fan of the overall tone of this. It sounds a bit peaky / less warm (whatever that means). The faster lines / notes in the melody feel detached - synthetic even (or not something I'm used to hearing.) .I'm hearing the final chord in a very different emotional way than #2. Doesn't have the same drama... its kinda plastic.
#4. Like the shorts most of the time here... maybe more than #2... though not the tone / hearing the horns as a group of horns rather than a single tone. However #4 accents are better balanced / better sounding. Like the melody but feel like I miss some notes / some attacks - and the line doesn't feel like something that would be played by players in that way. Like the low notes in the sfz better in #2 than #4, but otherwise its nice.
#5. Below #4 and #2 for me. I think. Its close. There's loads I like about the tone. Feels a bit mechanical at times / not as realistic, but tone - yeah its nice. Much better reverb than #2.

For the final chord, (listening from just after the attack) in iscolation, I like #2, #1, #5, #4, #3 in that order.
Overall though, the order would be #2, #5, #4 #3 #1
Confusing much?

B.
 
They're all pretty good at playing the notes, I thought #4 was perhaps the best, especially the staccatos below the main line.

But all five have a very strange tone: "tubey" and snarling, almost like a megaphone. None of the examples really feel like horns in a room. All five examples reminded me of Infinite Brass or some less than ideal mockups of Sample Modeling Brass. Did you add some algorithmic or convolution reverb, or other effects, on all five instruments? I'd prefer to hear them out of the box with no added effects, even if that means they sound different.
I am glad that at least my playing pleased you. I was not a great piano student though. ;)

Sure there are reverb in them.
 
Wow - they're all quite different. And there's parts of all of them I like / all of them I don't like.
The different way they react to the rooms is somewhat clouding my judgement.
Even just listening to the first few underscore shorts - the rooms are quite profoundly different - and this kind of changes how one reacts to the overall tone.
Not sure there is a clear winner / one I like the most - but will responses to each help?
#1. So here the reverb on the backing shorts just distracts me. I also feel there is a tonal jump between the accents of the backing staccs which feels unnatural. Perhaps it just feels like the accents are overdone. The top line I don't mind - though too wet for my taste. But its tone sits nicely when played repeatedly on its own. The final sfz is nice until it reaches f and it becomes a bit - ha - metallic - or shrill / nasal.
#2. The shorts at the top - I kind of like how I'm hearing the individual notes in each chord more here. It actually sounds less quantized - but could just be that the individual sounds have different attacks recorded at slightly different speeds. Or something. The balance between the backing ands the lead line is clearer than #1 (the tonal sound of the backing makes it sit back a little - it sounds a half or one dynamic lower at times... not the voume - just the tone.) Final 3 accents of the backing before the sfz are not great to me. Its that super loud sound which just sounds unnatural in the context of the part. Though its a nice intensity. :) . I like some of the attacks of the top line better than 1. Overall the tone of the top line is lovely and warm. Probably my fav TONE overall, but some of the attacks let it down. Actually, after a longer listening session, this is my fav. I'm hearing the individual horns more - have a listen to the final chord. I can make out WAY more of the notes very quickly here... to the point where the following versions seem to loose a note in the chord (is that just a balance thing? Or just the nature of notes with very similar properties when close together harmonically combining... ah psychoacoustics are fun. Indeed - one of the low notes is probably a bit loud / out of balance - but it helps me hear the chord.) . I do NOT like the room on this version though. And every other time I go back to it I want to place it WAY back in the list because of this. But trying to listen past that,.
#3. Not a fan of the overall tone of this. It sounds a bit peaky / less warm (whatever that means). The faster lines / notes in the melody feel detached - synthetic even (or not something I'm used to hearing.) .I'm hearing the final chord in a very different emotional way than #2. Doesn't have the same drama... its kinda plastic.
#4. Like the shorts most of the time here... maybe more than #2... though not the tone / hearing the horns as a group of horns rather than a single tone. However #4 accents are better balanced / better sounding. Like the melody but feel like I miss some notes / some attacks - and the line doesn't feel like something that would be played by players in that way. Like the low notes in the sfz better in #2 than #4, but otherwise its nice.
#5. Below #4 and #2 for me. I think. Its close. There's loads I like about the tone. Feels a bit mechanical at times / not as realistic, but tone - yeah its nice. Much better reverb than #2.

For the final chord, (listening from just after the attack) in iscolation, I like #2, #1, #5, #4, #3 in that order.
Overall though, the order would be #2, #5, #4 #3 #1
Confusing much?

B.
Wow, thanks for the detailed feedback. Interesting comment about "group of horns" on #4.
 
  • Tonewise: 1, 2 and 5 all sound organic. 2 has more bite (Jaws style) which fits best for this kind of composition.
  • Mixwise: 1 and 2 are very wet and blurry, so 5 wins here where it keeps the balance between the ambiance and the notes still being clear.
conclusion: shall 2 had the same mix as 5, I would have definitely chosen 2 as the winner, but I finally went for 5 since it has both good tone and good mixing.

(wait...was there even 3 & 4? I just neglected them as they just sound synthy rubbish- sorry to say:inlove:)
 
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1. Short notes sound smeary.
2. "Main melody" sounds like driven through a PA-system, like misused Altiverb? Otherwise ok.
3. Thin, synthetic. "Barbie, it's fantastic, it's plastic."
4. Suffers from distant mic, but otherwise quite balanced.
5. Best for me, right amount of dryness and good balance between main line and staccato.

From best to worst: 5,4,2,1,3
Would use 4 or 5 depending on the mix preferred.

Now you can PM me the libraries used...;)
 
I liked 1 & 5.
1 has not the best tone but sounds cohesive.
5 is nice too, a bit less cohesive to me.
Others sound like sample instruments playing along, not the feel of players in the room.
I voted 1.
Can I get the results in PM, since I’m on the market for a brass library right now? :)
 
They are all too wet for me, sounds like you are trying to compensate or hide the shortcomings of samples in a large hall. Can't you hear those nasty overtones that only unhealthy amounts of fake reverb add? I like the musical idea though ;)
 
I liked 1 & 5.
1 has not the best tone but sounds cohesive.
5 is nice too, a bit less cohesive to me.
Others sound like sample instruments playing along, not the feel of players in the room.
I voted 1.
Can I get the results in PM, since I’m on the market for a brass library right now? :)
The current result can be seen above and it is very interesting. It is not just as interesting as the comment around here.:)
 
I like 4 best because the sound had a more obvious room sound to it. Then I also preferred the phrases in 4, particularly the fast bits. In comparison, It sounded like some of the others fumbled a bit (@1:28).

I'd be interested to know which ones have you owned for longest / spent the most time with?
 
Went for 5, closely followed by 1. Sound is nearly the same, but 5 seems a tad more drier to me, which makes it better to suit in different mixing situations. Looking forward to the reveal
 
The question about horns is the balance between the warm sound and the 'cuivré' intonation.

- The version 1 sounds great, having a warm and balanced sound and great 'cuivré' too.
- The 5 is closed, slightly more pinched and thinner.
- The 3 sounds awful, thin, metallic and terribly pinched.
- 2 and 4 are in between.

I wonder which library is which, didn't read the entire thread before answering ;)
 
I like the piece you wrote, even though it's just a snippet. Makes me want to hear more.

I voted for #4, but if it were my mockup I'd be happy with any of them.
 
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