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Piano Library

Maybe, but some take to a cinematic environment more fluently and convincingly than others and it’s got nothing to do with EQ, reverb or delay, it’s the naked timbre of these instruments that makes all the important difference.

Some time ago, I did a comparison of ‘virtual pianos in a cinematic guise', and below are a few of the resulting examples. (The complete piece, "Rikke", a blatantly Newman-esque demo for Pianoteq’s ModelD, can be heard https://www.pianoteq.com/audio//modeld/Piet%20De%20Ridder%20-%20Rikke%20-%20Model%20D.mp3 (here).)

1. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_CinematicStudio.mp3 (Cinematic Studio Piano)
2. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Emotional.mp3 (Emotional Piano)
3. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Galaxy.mp3 (Galaxy VintageD)
4. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_OTRosewood.mp3 (OT Rosewood)
5. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Ravenscroft.mp3 (Ravenscroft)
6. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Fluffy.mp3 (Fluffy Scoring Piano)
7. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_PianoInBlue.mp3 (Piano In Blue)

Say what you want, but certain of these instruments succeed much better than others, to my ears anyway, and that difference is entirely determined by what these virtual pianos have to offer all by themselves, rather than by how they were processed.

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THis is great, @re-peat! It really shows which pianos do well in this very specific context.
 
Maybe, but some take to a cinematic environment more fluently and convincingly than others and it’s got nothing to do with EQ, reverb or delay, it’s the naked timbre of these instruments that makes all the important difference.

Some time ago, I did a comparison of ‘virtual pianos in a cinematic guise', and below are a few of the resulting examples. (The complete piece, "Rikke", a blatantly Newman-esque demo for Pianoteq’s ModelD, can be heard https://www.pianoteq.com/audio//modeld/Piet%20De%20Ridder%20-%20Rikke%20-%20Model%20D.mp3 (here).)

1. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_CinematicStudio.mp3 (Cinematic Studio Piano)
2. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Emotional.mp3 (Emotional Piano)
3. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Galaxy.mp3 (Galaxy VintageD)
4. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_OTRosewood.mp3 (OT Rosewood)
5. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Ravenscroft.mp3 (Ravenscroft)
6. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Fluffy.mp3 (Fluffy Scoring Piano)
7. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_PianoInBlue.mp3 (Piano In Blue)

Say what you want, but certain of these instruments succeed much better than others, to my ears anyway, and that difference is entirely determined by what these virtual pianos have to offer all by themselves, rather than by how they were processed.

_
Lovely comparison! I find the Fluffy Scoring Piano to have the most pleasing tone for this piece.
Definitely the best mid-range out of all those pianos.
 
Other suggestions welcomed!

Most, if not all, computer based pianos are a load of crap. But if you're looking for an underscore sound then get Keyscape because with Keyscape you're getting a lot of value for money with a large array of piano type sounds.
Most of the piano things you hear on the Internet are about sound. Not really so much about actual what you would at least call competent piano playing, although that happens. If I was say, going to do a solo style piano track today, I wouldn't go anywhere near a software piano for numerous reasons.
But if it's more about sound mixed in with other sounds, then go for Keyscape.
 
Maybe, but some take to a cinematic environment more fluently and convincingly than others and it’s got nothing to do with EQ, reverb or delay, it’s the naked timbre of these instruments that makes all the important difference.

Some time ago, I did a comparison of ‘virtual pianos in a cinematic guise', and below are a few of the resulting examples. (The complete piece, "Rikke", a blatantly Newman-esque demo for Pianoteq’s ModelD, can be heard https://www.pianoteq.com/audio//modeld/Piet%20De%20Ridder%20-%20Rikke%20-%20Model%20D.mp3 (here).)

1. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_CinematicStudio.mp3 (Cinematic Studio Piano)
2. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Emotional.mp3 (Emotional Piano)
3. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Galaxy.mp3 (Galaxy VintageD)
4. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_OTRosewood.mp3 (OT Rosewood)
5. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Ravenscroft.mp3 (Ravenscroft)
6. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Fluffy.mp3 (Fluffy Scoring Piano)
7. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_PianoInBlue.mp3 (Piano In Blue)

Say what you want, but certain of these instruments succeed much better than others, to my ears anyway, and that difference is entirely determined by what these virtual pianos have to offer all by themselves, rather than by how they were processed.

_
Thank you, very interesting. I think in this context my favourites are Emotional Piano and Ravenscroft
 
Most, if not all, computer based pianos are a load of crap. But if you're looking for an underscore sound then get Keyscape because with Keyscape you're getting a lot of value for money with a large array of piano type sounds.
Most of the piano things you hear on the Internet are about sound. Not really so much about actual what you would at least call competent piano playing, although that happens. If I was say, going to do a solo style piano track today, I wouldn't go anywhere near a software piano for numerous reasons.


I'm assuming that could be said about all acoustic instruments. I'm a pro violinist. Since it's gig season, I've been playing lots of shows of course. Coming back to my sample libraries is like turning on a radio made in 1940 that barely works. It's not only the sounds, it's the smells. :) That's not even a bad thing, some of the women smelled quite lovely in cramped quarters.
Regardless... the Cinematic Studio Piano demo sounds great. It would be something I'd want to hear as a listener, piano-y or not.
 
On the
Most, if not all computer based instruments are a load of crap when compared to the real thing. The real thing will triumph every single time. But that's not really the point is it?

Pianos are the only instruments for which good VI emulations exist. Lots of variables, but only a small fraction of those involved in a woodwind note for instance.
 
Maybe, but some take to a cinematic environment more fluently and convincingly than others and it’s got nothing to do with EQ, reverb or delay, it’s the naked timbre of these instruments that makes all the important difference.

Some time ago, I did a comparison of ‘virtual pianos in a cinematic guise', and below are a few of the resulting examples. (The complete piece, "Rikke", a blatantly Newman-esque demo for Pianoteq’s ModelD, can be heard https://www.pianoteq.com/audio//modeld/Piet%20De%20Ridder%20-%20Rikke%20-%20Model%20D.mp3 (here).)

1. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_CinematicStudio.mp3 (Cinematic Studio Piano)
2. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Emotional.mp3 (Emotional Piano)
3. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Galaxy.mp3 (Galaxy VintageD)
4. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_OTRosewood.mp3 (OT Rosewood)
5. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Ravenscroft.mp3 (Ravenscroft)
6. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_Fluffy.mp3 (Fluffy Scoring Piano)
7. https://users.telenet.be/deridderpiet.be/SB_Pianos/FilmScoringPiano_PianoInBlue.mp3 (Piano In Blue)

Say what you want, but certain of these instruments succeed much better than others, to my ears anyway, and that difference is entirely determined by what these virtual pianos have to offer all by themselves, rather than by how they were processed.

_

Well, I understand you very well, but original poster posted this "good all around piano for production music".
Each piano from you list has unique sound and different overall ambient etc etc, and then if you need piano for each certain song then you will finish with buying 15 piano libraries instead one workhorse piano library - simple, playable, good sounding too.
I rather choose 1 unique and then I can include that piano in every song, if I need "good all round piano" oblique with some eq, fx.
Again, I have Grandour/Gentleman and you can really achieve any sound with it. It can sound intimate, it can sound live like you playing in your room etc.
 
Production Voices C7 - outstanding
Hans Zimmer Piano - very good Steinway in Air Studio, but some niggles and over-priced
Soniccouture Hammersmith Pro - very good but maybe lacking character

To me these three have the attack and depth of real pianos. ALL the others I have tried (which is lot) feel lacking in some respect.
 
I had done a comparison of the Galaxy Vintage D to the Galaxy Steinway in D playing some Rachmaninoff some years back. These days I turn to the Vintage D, but I recommend both!



Really interesting contrast. From your demo, at least, the Vintage D has an outstanding fortissimo bottom, but the (other) Steinway in D has a breathtaking pianissimo. Listening to all of the demos (as I have for a couple years now), I've always had a hard time favouring one over the other, but I've tilted toward a greater perceived warmth and character in the Vintage D.
 
If anybody wants to point me at a decent MIDI file piano piece I'll be happy to put up some demos of the above pianos. (No I am NOT going to inflict my piano 'skills' on the world)
 
If anybody wants to point me at a decent MIDI file piano piece I'll be happy to put up some demos of the above pianos. (No I am NOT going to inflict my piano 'skills' on the world)

Chopin - Fantasie Impromptu, most colored and covered piece for piano if you ask me :)
 
Really interesting contrast. From your demo, at least, the Vintage D has an outstanding fortissimo bottom, but the (other) Steinway in D has a breathtaking pianissimo. Listening to all of the demos (as I have for a couple years now), I've always had a hard time favouring one over the other, but I've tilted toward a greater perceived warmth and character in the Vintage D.
Yeah, I agree. Totally different tones. I think I commented to someone who asked which I thought was better, and at the time I mentioned the Vintage D. But if I step away from the Vintage D for a while, I can get quite used to the Steinway.
Curious what you guys think of the Sampletekk Black Grand? It has a distinct sound and playability that I enjoyed. Very different from the Galaxy pianos. I don't think they got as much press about their pianos as some of the other Sample companies. This was my demo of the Black Grand.
 
Pianos are the only instruments for which good VI emulations exist.


I can’t agree with that, I’m afraid, Thereus. If you had said ‘claves’, I’d have nodded affirmatively, but as for virtual pianos, I’m inclined to agree with the Colonel — though *only* on this particular subject — even if ‘load of crap’ is perhaps too strong a threesome of words to describe the imperfect state of today’s virtual solutions.

In my opinion, the best piano emulation, be it sampled or modelled, is today — December of het jaar des heren 2017 — somewhere at about 15% on the road towards being more or less convincing and satisfying. To listen to and to play, that is. So, still a loooong way (and many technical innovations and revolutions) to go, I believe.

That being said, 15% seems plenty — even enough — for many applications and situations. But it's painfully inadequate if the suggestion of the true sound, timbral complexity, depth, dynamics, majesty, presence, adaptibility, radiance, endless versatility and sheer musicality of a good real piano needs to be summoned.

Play the real thing for a good while, if you have the chance, and in piano-sympathetic surroundings if possible, and I think you’ll agree: still a loooong way to go.

- - -

André, in answer to your question: all of them have pretty much the same treatment, being sent through the same channel strip that had various plug-ins inserted.

_
 
Yeah, I agree. Totally different tones. I think I commented to someone who asked which I thought was better, and at the time I mentioned the Vintage D. But if I step away from the Vintage D for a while, I can get quite used to the Steinway.
Curious what you guys think of the Sampletekk Black Grand? It has a distinct sound and playability that I enjoyed. Very different from the Galaxy pianos. I don't think they got as much press about their pianos as some of the other Sample companies. This was my demo of the Black Grand.

Nice work with Sampletekk's Black Grand Michael! It has a clarity on the attack, brightness and open tone I really enjoy. Sampled in a Stockholm Concert Hall if I remember correctly. Per from Sampletekk really knows what he's doing with sampled pianos (as evidenced by the work he does for 3rd party companies like Nord).
 
André, in answer to your question: all of them have pretty much the same treatment, being sent through the same channel strip that had various plug-ins inserted.
_

Thank you Piet, I would be interested if you care to share the chain, galaxy, cluster of plugin-ins you used? Still leaning toward the CINEMATIC STUDIO PIANO... Addictive tracks/sound. Did you use the same MIDI track for all the demos?
 
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I would gladly share all the processing details if I could, André, but I can’t at the moment, because the house here is being thoroughly renovated and I am without my studio. (Have been for the past few months with, so I'm told, about one more month to go.) All my music stuff (incl. iLoks, etc….) is packed in boxes, and while I can fire up Logic, I can’t check the settings of any track that uses dongle-reliant plugins. Sorry.

As for the MIDI: I will always adjust the midi data depending on the library. In other words: the midi data for, say, the EmotionalPiano version is *very* different from the data that triggered, for example, the VintageD.

Regarding the Cinematic Studio Piano, here’s what I wrote about it a little over a year ago in the Keyscape-thread:

"The CSP Yamaha is certainly not bad — continuing along the ‘just my opinion’-line here — but calling it great is not something I’m ready to do either. It’s a library that does quite well what I think it was sampled to do — sit all sweet and Siren-like on a bed of (orchestral) textures — but in a solo piece (or any part that asks a bit more from a piano than straight chords and/or melody lines), its limitations will be as noticeable as its strengths.

In complete contrast to Keyscape’s C7 where the note releases only appear when specifically instructed to do so, the CSP’s note releases are quite pronounced (troublesomely so, I find), and being a locked library with hardly any controls on its interface, there’s nothing to be done about that. Nor about most anything else that you might want to adjust.

I don’t regret the purchase (it hardly cost a thing at the time of CSS’s introduction), but it’s not a library I would ever consider seriously when looking for a virtual C7."


_
 
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Thank you Piet, very helpful review (and great writing). So I got drawn by the siren song of the CSP...

I will continue exploring the whole treatment of virtual pianos via effects, it feels like a better direction to go right now than looking for a "better" sample. I own TrueKeys, Ivory II, Quantum Leap, Scoring Piano (Fluffy) and Spitfire's Felt piano.

All the best with the renovations, and thank you for taking time to respond to my questions. Much appreciated!
 
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