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Flawless piano vst?

I wonder if some have a psychological barrier to accepting the possibility that modelling might create a good sound. Sampling is no less artificial if you think about it.

Talking about piano I believe it might be the case, at least a little bit.
The reason could be that when you think at a piano, you can have the impression that you could theoretically sample an "infinite" number of samples at different volumes and you would then think to have sampled basically every possible sound that instrument can make. You'll never think this way I.e. with a vilolin.
So one could think that the "best" vst will then be the one that has the biggest number of samples of the best possible recording quality.
And that would actually be the case if we were to choose the best piano vst at playing one note: with an infinite number of samples if we play "one note" we would actually hear a perfect recording of the piano playing "that" specific note and velocity, making it impossible to distinguish it from an actual recording of that very instrument playing that very note, which would actually exactly be.

But this changes after the second note is played, and I believe it's this that differentiates Pianoteq.

I think physical modelling is THEORETICALLY superior just as Artificial Intelligence is THEORETICALLY superior vs. i.e. a bot being programmed with a bazillion of possible answers to a bazillion of possible questions.

EDIT:
I naturally don't mean to question anyone's proficiency, it's just IMHO.
 
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Resonances are major when playing acoustic grand, right ? Many choices depending on who/where is listening ?
Topic truly has massive dimensions ....
Takes far beyond my talents to judge modelling vs sampling and only thing left is what comes to my ears.
Have not yet warmed 'fully' to Pianoteq (or AAS for that matter) but they both provide great options.

Lack of Demos for many respected Piano VSTi is a major issue ! Must be able to use personal room, sound system, ears _ or what's the point ?

Pianoteq 6 Grotrian Demo has now delayed further purchases until better sorted. :sleep:
 
I think Pianoteq 6 has improved upon the previous version dramatically. However, it's still not quite right to my ear. There's something about it that just misses for me, and I'll be sticking with my Ivory II American Concert D pushed through QL Spaces for the foreseeable future.

However, they must be congratulated for a big improvement on the previous version, and a very reasonable upgrade cost. I look forward to seeing them continue development even further. Definitely worth supporting this exciting developer.
 
Trust me when I say - I have an embarrassingly high number of Piano VI's. :) The go to continues to be Ravenscroft. For my purposes the best scoring piano. I want to replace it - I do (need more options for different projects) but nothing gets to me - as emotionally - as this VI.
 
For those of us here who are making recommendations based on sonic characteristics, recall how the OP phrased the original question:

What is more important to me before the sound is, that it works perfectly fine.

I think that detail is important otherwise this is Yet Another What's Your Favorite Piano thread.

To me, apart from reliability and consistency, this also means sane behavior as congruent as possible to a real acoustic piano. For example, many sample-based pianos just pedal all wrong. Minimally it needs to support repedalling -- and I'm still amazed how many modern piano libraries don't even get that right.
 
It's because it's really exceptionally hard to do it with samples...
I think a simple implementation would still be reasonably effective, it'd just use a few voices per note. Consider a library with separate pedal-up and pedal-down samples. If I strike a note with the pedal down, then play both pedal-up and pedal-down samples, with the pedal-up sample muted. If I release the sustain pedal while keeping the note held, crossfade to the pedal-up sample, and vice versa if I repress the sustain pedal. If I release the note before the pedal and then pedal up, then fade the pedal-down sample to zero volume but speed up processing of the now-muted sample by some amount (maybe 10x faster? whatever tracks the normal decay without pedal) and begin playing release sample(s). If I repedal before the accelerated pedal-down sample runs out, then resume playback of the pedal-down sample at normal speed and crossfade to it. This should simulate catching the note.

Wouldn't something like that work?

Adding half-pedal samples to the mix would involve another voice for the note, with a similar strategy for switching between full- and half-pedal.
 
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I'm not a piano player, but friends of mine who are really enjoyed Acoustic Samples C7 when trying out my V.I.s :)
 
AcousticSamples Fazioli F278 Concert Grand, as found in Machfive 3 and the UVI Grand Piano collection is the one for me. Utterly beautiful sound. The highs and lows are hard to beat. It might not be very well known, but that doesn't make it a lesser piano.

It is the only piano that I can 'feel' whilst playing it, something sorely missing from most virtual pianos.
Wow the Model D in that collection sounds excellent as well, and it can be purchased separately for only $79. I might pull the trigger and get the collection - I'm just so skittish about spending money for the umpteenth time only to download the product and find it's wonky lol. Here's the link for anyone else interested:

https://www.uvi.net/grand-piano-collection.html
 
Wow the Model D in that collection sounds excellent as well, and it can be purchased separately for only $79. I might pull the trigger and get the collection - I'm just so skittish about spending money for the umpteenth time only to download the product and find it's wonky lol. Here's the link for anyone else interested:

https://www.uvi.net/grand-piano-collection.html
I initially purchased the Model D, and was then offered months later a very attractive upgrade path to the collection, which includes an Erard baby grand (interesting & quirky, but I don't use it much), a Seiler Upright (really nice stereo image and a realistic, warm tone if you get the velocity settings matched well to your keyboard), the Fazioli 278 Grand (my favourite in the collection - very well sampled, dynamic, and well programmed (does catch-pedaling), and a very average Yamaha C7 (never use it).

All pianos only offer a single mic perspective. The Model D sounds close mic'd so is very prominent in the hammer sound (but is great for more intimate, quiet type playing) as is very resonant. Quite dynamic too. Takes a while getting the velocity response right though, but worth persisting with. The Fazioli seems to have been captured with the mics a bit further back from the soundboard & hammers, using large diaphragm condenser mics (a Neumann pair I think) and therefore sounds quite open in the tone with a lovely stereo image. Not sure how the others were mic'd. The Seiler upright was a pleasant surprise. Basic controls, but a well captured, realistic & modern sounding, well tuned upright. So in summary, having 3 unique & very different sounding pianos I use often & really enjoy out of the collection of 5 is a good outcome for me for the price.
 
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Finally from me, I realise this thread ran off topic a little, but getting back to the original question, my opinion is Pianoteq would be top of my list as being the closest to a technically flawless Piano VST in my experience. It will handle the most demanding playing and pedalling techniques you can throw at it (given you have a high quality, hammer action keyboard such as a Kawai VPC1, Roland RD800, Yamaha CP4 Stage etc. with a proper continuous sustain pedal or piano type tri-pedal setup).
 
OP, I'm a classically trained pianist with tens of thousands of hours on acoustic pianos of all types, spent half a decade looking for a sampled piano library that would be near enough indistinguishable from the real thing for my videos.

Take a look at what I settled on; make up your own mind:




What you're hearing is Garritan's CFX Yahama, recorded in Abbey Road Studios - I haven't found anything yet that comes close (sorry to the pianoteq people!) All the videos at my channel use the same library. (I'm not affiliated with Garritan, and would switch in a heartbeat if someone can show me a better piano)
 
OP, I'm a classically trained pianist with tens of thousands of hours on acoustic pianos of all types, spent half a decade looking for a sampled piano library that would be near enough indistinguishable from the real thing for my videos.

Take a look at what I settled on; make up your own mind:




What you're hearing is Garritan's CFX Yahama, recorded in Abbey Road Studios - I haven't found anything yet that comes close (sorry to the pianoteq people!) All the videos at my channel use the same library. (I'm not affiliated with Garritan, and would switch in a heartbeat if someone can show me a better piano)


Hmmmmmm ...... Have several VSTi Grands, including IvoryII _ Italian, and will enjoy auditioning Garritan CFX Yamaha. May have cost IvoryII _ Studio Grands an imminent order. :unsure:

Notable issues are salient 'individual/local' factors .... Good to see your post and recordings! :thumbsup: Would you consider sharing names of your preferred MIDI keyboard controllers for playing Garritan CFX Yamaha ?? Hoping not MIDI'd Grands, as had to (painfully) relocate favorite Grotrian Concert 225 some time back, and must now work with most reasonable Keyboard controller.
 
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Would you consider sharing names of your preferred MIDI keyboard controllers for playing Garritan CFX Yamaha ?? Hoping not MIDI'd Grands, as had to (painfully) relocate favorite Grotrian Concert 225 some time back, and must now work with most reasonable Keyboard controller.

I use a Yamaha Avante Grand N3; chose it because it has the best action of any digital piano—there's nothing in the repertoire that it cannot handle. Sold a Yamaha G3 6 foot acoustic grand to buy it, have never regretted it. (I know, that's a very expensive MIDI controller...I don't even use the on board piano sounds of the N3)
 
I use a Yamaha Avante Grand N3; chose it because it has the best action of any digital piano—there's nothing in the repertoire that it cannot handle. Sold a Yamaha G3 6 foot acoustic grand to buy it, have never regretted it. (I know, that's a very expensive MIDI controller...I don't even use the on board piano sounds of the N3)

Thank-you for helping, sir.
Lots to go over and learn, as this was not in view previously.
 
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